New PTE base playset (The Naked Hanger)

nacho

"Big Guns"
Founder
Let's be very clear here. Make no mistake, the #1 culprit here that dwarfs every other factor is Walmart. Wally sells toys cheap to get people into stores. They aren't trying to keep their lights on selling toys. For that business model to work, they have to have volume throughput to continually attract people to come back. That volume requirement dictates that they can only carry stuff that's tied to major media pushes. Add in their notorious store-wide practices of squeezing every supplier, forcing them to produce cheaper goods, and you get nothing but cheap media tie-in toys. Bingo.

Places like TRU could hang on because they offered such a wide selection and didn't require every item to be a huge volume seller. They could effectively play the long-tail game in the store. If you wanted something that wasn't cheap media tie-in, i.e. the "good" toys, TRU was the place to go. But with the rise of Amazon and Ebay (the ultimate players in the "long-tail" game) - and to a lesser extent BBTS and other online outlets, the ability to find the "good" toys elsewhere for less money was suddenly at our fingertips. That left TRU as the king of... nothing. All they had was higher-priced, low-demand stuff in buildings with expensive leases. Unless you really needed to make an impulse buy of something not carried by WM/Target, there was zero reason to set foot in a TRU. Why do you think they have so many store exclusives? They struggle to compete or drive foot traffic outside of holiday shopping. It's a harsh reality, but they've lasted longer than a ton of others across the retail spectrum.

However, I don't buy the "cheap Joe fan" theory. We're the same group of dorks that doesn't think twice about dropping a benjamin or two on a 3P Transformer. There might be some cheap bastards out there (like the assholes that keep figure-swapping and stealing BAF parts from Marvel Legends), but the market in general is full of middle-aged dudes with disposable income.

You could call me hypocritical, as I have refused to join the Joe subscription services because of price,... but I hardly consider scoffing at a $30 four-inch figure "cheap" when the fucktards at mattel can produce 6" MOTUC figures for the same price. If Hasbro actually produced something worth buying (6" Joes!), I'd gladly pay through the nose and exhaust my kids' college funds hoarding the little bastards. The fact that they don't seem to know how to adapt the property for a new generation and don't seem to want to cater to us "olds" is the issue, and that's hard to diagnose further from the outside.

NSA, I agree about PTE though. It's astounding that some Amazon 3P seller hasn't cleaned up by importing a few shipping containers of the PTE stuff that's hard to get over here. If I had more time... I've got the storage space and have the ability to set up a shipping operation pretty quickly.... hmmmmmm.
 

pcsguy88

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Amazon Partner store prices are absolutely absurd for anything from 1:16 tanks to 3rd Party TFs which is why I'm always buying from stores/sellers in Asia. I can get crap from them for $20-$50 less from them AND shipped free. Makes me wonder what it costs those store to operate on Amazon or if they are just trying to mop up some extra profits on lazy click shoppers.
 

nacho

"Big Guns"
Founder
What's the last toy you saw in a grade schooler's hands at the store that didn't contain the words Nerf, Lego, Nintendo, Playstation or Xbox in it? All my stupid nephews have requested Android or Apple gift cards for presents since they were in 3rd grade. Makes birthdays and Christmas suck. You are correct toys in general are not going away, I just think the word TOY has a different definition with our kids.

I think the toy aisles are there for adults to buy crap for kids that are not their own these days.

My daughter plays with MLP and dolls, and my son has been excited about Angry Birds playsets, star wars, and RC cars. Legos are big, but kids still like toys, don't kid yourself. But the market is certainly more fractured than it was when we were kids.

We had the "benefit" of having limited (by today's standards) toy choices, and we all had the same four channels and watched the same cartoons for the most part. Nearly every boy in the 80's was into SW, Joe, TF, and MOTU.

Go to a classroom now and find more than three kids that are into the same thing at all. These three like Minecraft, those are into Halo shit, that kid collects Chinpokomon cards, and those two over there like action figures. The toy-world is simply splintered in the same way TV viewing audiences are. It's the paradox of choice. Nothing is a big deal the way it used to be.
 
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pcsguy88

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You are lucky, last toyline my daughter played with was How to Train Your Dragon and that was only for a year. Other than that, she only plays with Legos or those stupid bling boxes of incredibly expensive Minecraft chunks of plastic. Guess I'm lucky because she never wanted anything to do with dolls and especially American Girl.
 

nacho

"Big Guns"
Founder
We did the "Journey Girl" which is the TRU/WM version of American Girl. It's the same shit without the designer label or overpriced "experience". Screw that.

Both my kids are currently into the little overpriced rubber figurines. My daughter loves Shopkins, and my son is nuts about the Grossery Gang. They're incredibly stupid and pointless ("What do they do?!")... but I remember buying packs of Garbage Pail kids, so I've tried to be tolerant of their poor tastes.
 

Deslock

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Stopped by the Big Lots where I used to work today, because I saw on the PTE facebook page that they're now shipping out to the U.S. for the holidays.

They had the same PTE crap that they had 8 months ago. Except now their toys are down to one aisle now. I'm going to keep checking though.

M&C now has a Fire fighter/Rescue line, a SWAT line, the usual PTE, Sci Fi, and now their Sports and Adventure line. And none of it hardly here. If only they could find a way to lower their MSRP and their shipping cost down, they'd make an absolute killing here like AmiAmi, and Aliexpress does.
 

K-Tiger

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Stopped by the Big Lots where I used to work today, because I saw on the PTE facebook page that they're now shipping out to the U.S. for the holidays.

They had the same PTE crap that they had 8 months ago. Except now their toys are down to one aisle now. I'm going to keep checking though.

M&C now has a Fire fighter/Rescue line, a SWAT line, the usual PTE, Sci Fi, and now their Sports and Adventure line. And none of it hardly here. If only they could find a way to lower their MSRP and their shipping cost down, they'd make an absolute killing here like AmiAmi, and Aliexpress does.

Same here. Just in there today, lots of empty shelves, but no planograms to clue me in as to what they'll hold.
 

lancelot

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It sounds to me that the major problem the toy industry faces is the apparent unwillingness to adapt to online markets. Retail in general has been declining, there are less stores in my home and neighboring town than there were five years ago. Everything is slowly becoming more online focused, but military toys in particular are horrible to buy online. Amazon has always been the last place I would look to buy GI Joes (and Star Wars for that matter) or any other military brand because their stock evaporates and then whats left is expensive. Other types of toys don't suffer like this nearly as much and I think it's because those toys are produced in ubiquity without loosing their quality, for example, TMNT toys are available both at Walmart and Amazon for similar prices. Then again, that's a media tie-in . . .
 

Dropshipbob

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We did the "Journey Girl" which is the TRU/WM version of American Girl. It's the same shit without the designer label or overpriced "experience". Screw that.

Both my kids are currently into the little overpriced rubber figurines. My daughter loves Shopkins, and my son is nuts about the Grossery Gang. They're incredibly stupid and pointless ("What do they do?!")... but I remember buying packs of Garbage Pail kids, so I've tried to be tolerant of their poor tastes.

At least they are cheap, you get more than one for your money, AND THEY DON'T BREAK!

Like NSA said, they are the present-day version of M.U.S.C.L.E.
 

NSA

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However, I don't buy the "cheap Joe fan" theory. We're the same group of dorks that doesn't think twice about dropping a benjamin or two on a 3P Transformer. There might be some cheap bastards out there (like the assholes that keep figure-swapping and stealing BAF parts from Marvel Legends), but the market in general is full of middle-aged dudes with disposable income.

I think this is still really a thing, though it could be confined to Joe collectors. Being a cheap fan doesn't equal being a POOR fan. Granted most of this is gleamed from my years at HissTank..

From the 25th line on, the GI JOE fans got cheaper and cheaper. The figures started at like, what $5/each at TRU/Target for single card figures? $25 for a 5-pack or something? Decent prices. Eventually as the recession set in, prices for single card figures slowly raised. $5.99, $6.99. Drug stores were selling them for $9.99. BBTS and the like still had cases for like $55, but those were going up too, and you would get stuck with some crap figures.

Overall I felt the 25th line was fine, some of the TRU exclusive stuff pegwarmed, but it wasn't too bad. Most of the time they couldn't keep the good stuff in stock around me. The notable thing for me was that towards the tail end, during the "comic figures" and Resolute stuff, loads of GI JOE stuff was showing up at TJ MAXX, ROSS, etc. It wasn't just the crap either, it was some of the harder to find stuff that people had previously paid big $$$ for on eBay, BBTS, etc. Some people felt burned, but the big issue was it showed people that if they wait, they can get stuff cheaper.

RoC was where things got bad. The figure prices jumped up across the board. $7.99 was the new normal, though 2 for $10 sales were still happening pretty regularly. The price increase, combined with the rather lackluster RoC series 1 likely made fans stay away more than they normally would. This combined with the "wait" people led rise to the "cheap GI JOE fan". "Why buy a Skystriker now, when it'll go to ROSS and be half off later?" Masking this a bit was the lower quality of the RoC stuff. The shitty "Nightraven" and extra shitty "Dragonfly" made it easy to ignore a bunch of GI JOE products on principal, which lead to more stuff headed to discount stores, which led to more people skipping out on buying them at retail. Lather, rinse, repeat.

By the time we got to the actually GOOD Pursuit of Cobra (POC) figures, the damage was done. Retailers were (understandably) skittish of GI JOE sales and the GI JOE 'fans' knew they could probably wait out this line too and get it at a deep discount. These same fans don't blink an eye at shelling out $$$$ for SDCC exclusives or Collectors Club crap or any other toy line, but the fact that they got the toys cheap once meant they were never going to be convinced to buy them at retail price again (or at least in normal quantities).

Is this the CHEAP GI JOE fans fault? No, not really. People go where the deals are. Hasbro probably shouldn't have poisoned their own well by sending stuff off to discounters, but I have no idea of their stock levels and issues, so who knows.

Ultimately though, it left us with a brand people absolutely care about, but absolutely won't pay retail for. Which leaves you with random overpriced store exclusives and not much else.

I don't think this was the only reason, of course, but I can't help but think it hastened the decline. Military toys in general are on the decline. Where did $5 BBI/Unimax figures go? Those always seemed popular, and were a perfect price. I walked through Target yesterday and the toy section was depressing. A ton of "stupid" Star Wars crap, equally stupid Marvel crap. A bunch of random brands, Nerf, Lego, Hot Wheels, girl stuff, and board games. Easy to not spend a dime. Star Wars/Marvel figures hitting $10, $11, $12 each also makes them as easy pass.

My 10 year old like the True Heroes military stuff at TRU still, my 4 year old likes cars and Lincoln logs and Legos, and nerf and McDonalds toys.. basically just toys in general. They both love video games, but we're trying to keep their time with that at bay.
 

Deslock

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I think you hit the nail on the head. It isn't that we're "cheap" so to say, it's just the economy is utter shit, and money for everyone is tight all around.

When I saw the new Nerf Falcon, I knew I wanted it for my theater, but I also knew ther was no way in Hell I was going to waste $130.00 on that substandard piece of crap. Not that much. Waited it out, and picked it up for $30.00 0n clearance.

When you know the market for toys isn't that great, what prompted them to come out with the electronic walking Ac-Te for $300.00. No one was asking for that. Now it's going for about $130.00 MIB on Ebay, and they're still not selling, even for that.

If I'm willing to spend that kinda cash for toys, I'm going for vintage. Not modern day undersized overpriced crap. They want to make as much money as they can, and we want to spend as little as we can. The trick is they have to find a happy middle ground. We want bad ass, and they want to go cheap ass. Hence the SW 5POA at $8.00 a figure. and the severely under sized vehicles.

As you said, military toys are way down, The Wars in the middle east has ben going on for so long now, people are tired of it. The same thing for G.I. Joe in the 70's, when they came up with the whole Adventure team line. But the market for it IS still here, just not at these current day prices. I just can't justify paying that much, when with a little bit of hunting, you can find stuff cheaper.

I hunt thrift stores, and some think that's silly. That is until they see the full size 1:18th scale castle I picked up for $5.00. Or the discontinued Fisher Price doll house that sold for $350.00, got it MIB for $50.00 at a local pawn shop.

I know they want to make a profit. But I also, like you guys; have a home to pay for, a car, children, bills, and so on. after all that, we all have very little disposable income to spend on plastic crap we really don't need. If they want that very finite amount of cash that we can spend, they need to earn it, just like we do. And giving us single action figures at $12.00 a pop isn't cutting it.

Do we want the PTE Quonset hut ?, Hell yeah we do. But for $107.00. ??!!. Erm....no. Not when you have a pretty good idea of how much it actually cost them to make it. And I think that's where M&C did good with the PTE line. It's reasonably priced (when or if you're actually lucky enough to find their products), they just have to find a way to figure out their distribution problems here. Big Lots isn't cutting it. If they can find a way to warehouse here instead of shipping from Hong Kong, they could make some mad duckets.

If these Toy companies want to stay viable and above water, they're going to have to find a way to make a quality product, at an affordable price for the market. What they're doing now isn't working, hence TRU's bankruptcy. It's just become too expensive.
 

NSA

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I mean, I guess the Kickstarter model is perfect for these toys, as it lives or dies based on people ponying up money. "Hoping" people buy your stuff at retail price is the doom of toy lines right now it seems.. unless your Star Wars/Marvel.

I'm honestly and genuinely surprised Hasbro doesn't sell GI JOEs directly from their website.

Fuck, I looked.. https://www.hasbrotoyshop.com/en/htsusa/all-brands

They don't even LIST GI JOE as one of their brands. How 'bout them apples? Talk about burying a brand. I can't imagine how selling their figures direct wouldn't be a money maker. Make a wave of 'best of' and army builders and sell them. It's not rocket surgery!

As for PTE.. yeah, I don't know. Would be nice if someone spoke Chinese so we could ask them.
 

nacho

"Big Guns"
Founder
But you said it yourself. When the 25th line started, figures were $5. By the time RoC hit two years later, they were up to $8.99. Is it "cheap" to feel bent over by 80% inflation in 24 months? Is it "cheap" to turn your nose up at shitty movie product that you know isn't worth full retail? Or is it normal to bristle at ugly figures at ultra-gougy prices?

I see your point, but I don't put ANY of that on the fandom. Some would argue that Big-H got exactly what they deserved. Sure, you could call that cutting your nose off to spite your face, but when the alternative is for Hasbro to treat fans like an ATM, I can live with that. "Cheap" Joe fans? I say "Greedy" Hasbro.

I love comics. I've collected every issue of batman from 1967 to the present, fifty-freakin'-years worth. But if DC decided that batman was so popular that new comics are now going to have a $9 cover price because reasons, I would tell my retailer to get fucked. If that meant the end of Batman comics, then so be it... If a new camaro suddenly cost $80-grand, no one would label customers "cheap camaro buyers" just because they waited for the end of year clearance sale. If hasbro doesn't like the expectations that THEY set, then they need to reset those expectations. Release something that IS worth $10 a figure. Make us actually want to pay the price. It's their game, we just play it.

I miss an abundance of Joe on the shelves. But the reality is that I bought enough figures in that 6-year span to last several lifetimes, at full retail AND on clearance. I could fill a dump truck. So more Joe would be *nice*, but until Hasbro comes it it's senses, I'm not losing any sleep.

They made 5 PoA Joe drivers. Five. P. o. A. In THIS decade. For the love of God man, 5 PoA Joes!!!!! That's an unforgivable crime. I have zero sympathy.
 

Deslock

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That's what I mean. If Lanard can make figures with 11 POA figures, for $3.99 for a two pack, and Hasbro can't; for a $14.00 two pack ??!!. :confused:

Hasbro is outright lying to us. They wanted the 5 poa to keep their costs down, and maximize profits. And it blew up in their face. So now they're bring back TVC. Gee, how very thoughtful and kind of them. Hasbro just has it's combined head up it's ass.

PTE gives you sets of 3 or more figures, with full articulation and a buttload of accessories for $8-$10. But some how Hasbro can't offer G.I Joe or Star Wars sets like this ?. :confused:

Right now my Big Lots has a PTE Jeep, jeep trailer. and a fully articulated figure w/ accessories....for $20.00

At my store, we have an undersized Tie Silencer with Kylo......For $50.00
The A-Wing isn't bad for $29.99.

With Joe gone, M&C is poised to nail this market if they had their shit together. PTE has been very popular in the 1:18th community for quite some time now, and their products are in high demand. With no movies, no animated shows, not even a comic book. Because absolutely no one is; besides Lanard and the company that makes Sentinel 1 for TRU.

If they would make some female figures, and come up with some kind of backstory, they would sell a lot more. As it is, you can buy the PTE guys, but who and the Hell are they fighting against ?. An elite power team of world peacekeepers that doesn't have any opposition ?. It defeats the purpose of the darn toy line right out of the gate. That's why Hasbro invented Cobra in the first place. With the original 12" Joe line, you had these soldiers, that didn't have a "reason to be, or even exist."

With Lanard, they've come up with this "Curse" idea, but the "new" figures are just the same figures that they already had, with repaints, except for the two females which use the exact same body with different heads.

I guess it just bothers me because the PTE line has so much possible potential to fill in the gap of Joe, that Hasbro just wants to ignore and forget.

Ah, but what the Hell do I know.

I'm just glad I was there for the Micronauts, the Fisher Price Adventure people, G.I. Joe, and so on. I just feel kinda bad for all the kids today. Yeah, video games are fun. I am a hardcore online gamer with over 11 years in my gaming clan. I enjoy the Hell out of video gaming.

But having a controller in your hands doesn't come anywhere near to the tactile feeling of actually playing with physical mediums, of vehicles, playsets, and figures. Of being outside with your friends and making adventures of your very own. Not just looking at a TV screen. Yes, playing video games are fun. But that sense of imagination just isn't the same.

M&C, get your products over here !!!. Heh.
 
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Dropshipbob

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Has there been any word as to why Hasbro has just stopped GI Joe? I can't believe they would do that with a property that's been with them for as long as Barbie and some of their other corner-stone properties.
 

K-Tiger

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Barbie is Mattel, and still sells, at least better than Joes. In Hasbro's eyes G.I. Joe can't succeed without a media tie-in, more specifically a movie. No retail Joes in a non-movie year is now the way it is.
 

NSA

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I'm not using "Cheap Fan" as a pejorative, just as a descriptive word to describe said fans.

Were the price hikes that coincided with the RoC line justified? Probably not. I am sure they planned to eat some of the marketing cost for the movie in the toy line, and saw how other toy lines were priced and went with it. The difference is there was an existing toy line that the RoC replaced, which was (arguably) better in every way. We got 'lesser' figures for more money. That's not how that works. That's not how any of this works!

That rightfully created legions of "Cheap fans". I think that mentality stuck with them through the rest of the GI JOE releases from then on. Hasbro had some good plans (PoC was fantastic) and bad plans (5 POA?!) and ultimately just decided to put the dog down I guess.

Without knowing tooling/shipping/etc costs for Hasbro, we can't know how justified (or not) their cost increases were. It FEELS unsubstantiated, but really we're just guessing. Should a Star Wars 5 POA 4" figure cost $13.99? I think not. What should it cost? Hell if I know. Using an inflation calculator, $5 in 2007 money is apparently the same as $6 today. Not a huge jump. Not sure how that impacts the buying power in China though and all that. Oil is way cheaper now too. I would hazard a guess that perhaps the price increases were valid at one point, but then never went back down when the economy recovered. They figured people were used to higher prices and enjoyed the additional revenue.

Like Deslok said, PTE can make things way cheaper.. though I will say their figures are definitely not on the same level as quality GI JOE figures, regardless of POA. They're serviceable but that's about as good as I'd say they are. Weapons/accessories/etc are also not on the same level. It would be nice if Hasbro could find a middle ground to be more affordable, but honestly I think the ship has sailed for JOE for the foreseeable future unless someone there can get the greenlight to do an ECO Warriors (ANTIFA JOE!) spin off type thing with the brand.
 

Videoviper

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The reason Joe is NOT on the Hasbro sight is because it is (or was) a Toys R US exclusive 2017. Who knows what where or who it will be next year.

In Hasbro's eyes Star Wars is the army toys & parents buy that because its Star Wars & not anything that could possibly be realistic or political. But Joe & Star Wars compete, so Big H will pick Star Wars over Joe. If they were made by different companies, Joe would be a lot more relevant.

As far as PTE, they are good toys, but they really have not updated much other than packaging in years. & the figures are either repaints or exactly the same. So that keeps costs really down. CORPS is slightly better with updates but not by much.
Also the real story is the figure we are buying are the bad guys :) (Their Joes are asian)
 

nacho

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All of hasbro's pricing bullshit fell apart when the $6 dollar general figures appeared. Sure, there wasn't any new tooling, but 90% of the TRU figures form the last 3-4 years were just repaints too.

I get sad every time I pass a DG, thinking of the fun I had hoarding the black troopers and green shipwrecks.
 

nacho

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My favorite was always Children's Palace. Bigger store than TRU and always had more stock on hand and was quicker to discount. But then again, they went out of business 20 years ago, so maybe they were TOO good.

CP was just a quarter mile from the lone TRU in my area, so when I was hunting something, I could usually get my grandmother to take me to both. She was always keen to spot me a twenty, which was a shitload of money to a ten-year-old in 1985. Those were good days. And I wonder why I'm such a nostalgia whore :)
 

NSA

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I would be nice to get some former Hasbro guy to lay out their costs/etc. I have to imagine as their predicted sales #'s go down, the per cost price of the figures would go up internally. Just wonder how out of whack they kept the % at.

Or why they didn't make an on-line only line of figures you could order from them direct (Hell even MAIL ORDER).

Seems like a best of/army builders/DG type of thing would have been good to have going in the background when releases were sparse? Wonder if retailers wouldn't allow it?

I don't remember if I had a favorite toy store as a kid other than Toys R Us. I think I hit up KB Toys a lot in the mall.
 

lancelot

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I still maintain that Hasbro's unwillingness to keep certain brands in stock through online venues has been crippling for properties like GI Joe. I think they've been producing GI Joe toys in limited quantities because they're a bone being tossed to the old dogs of a niche market, and now Hasbro doesn't want to toss them anymore bones. The inability of Toys R Us, Amazon, and Hasbro's Toy shop to keep certain figures in stock for more than a few hours is a testament to the problems of a scalper heavy hobby mixed with limited quantity production.
 

K-Tiger

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I saw the Christmas planogram at BL the other day. Didn't see anything new PTE-wise. RAH, bombed out building, Type 98 MBT, a couple of Hummers and then the little sets that are still on the shelves already (tent, Chinese Argo Avenger)
 

the_Archivist

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Finally available in the US via Amazon
Amazon.com: Click N’ Play Mega Military Army Base Barrack Command Center Play Set With Accessories -74 Pieces.: Toys & Games
 

NSA

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$70 still seems like a lot to me. I mean, all things considered it's cheaper than it was, but it still seems a lot for what you get.

The bombed out village thing was like $40 or $50. Seems like it should be in that kind of price range.
 

nacho

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I tend to agree that this is still steep, but on the other hand, it's better than any price we've seen thus far, and there aren't a lot of options for this kind of thing at this scale. The classic HQ is $50 now. I have several of those, and I've never paid close to that before. Inflation? Scarcity? Big Lots not selling these in droves making them far tougher to obtain? Who knows.

I may only pick up one instead of mutables, but I gotta snag at least a single. Thanks for the head's up, Archivist.
 
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Slaymaker

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$70 still seems like a lot to me. I mean, all things considered it's cheaper than it was, but it still seems a lot for what you get.

The bombed out village thing was like $40 or $50. Seems like it should be in that kind of price range.


When they 1st hit they were $59.99...price has steadily climbed since then.
 

lancelot

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Glad to see PTE stuff on an online venue at decent prices, but wtf is Click 'N Play? Did M&C re-brand themselves? Did they get bought out or merge with someone? What's the deal with that?
 

ChevyMel

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I'm glad i went ahead and got mine, i'm sure they will come down in price after the holidays. I liked it when i first saw it and i just bought two....
 

Deslock

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Finally got this bad boy as a belated father's day present for my Toy Theater, And the pics really don't do it justice. This damn thing is HUGE !!

Comes with the regular not so impressive accessories we've all seen before, except for the micro drone.
Regular figures also. I wish maybe they'd added a special commander or general figure with it for the $80 price tag.

I dislike the shiny cardboard floor with the printed gear on it. It's very very flimsy. I bought a plastic sign to glue to the bottom of it to make it more sturdy, and I'm going to have to hit it with a matte spray to reduce the shinyness of it. I mean it's reeeeeeally shiny, and just a bit undersized. And I'll have to add some LED lights on the ceiling, the interior is really dark, and it would be hard to photograph unless you have a light shining right in it, and that would look like shit.

I wish it would've come with some signs or posters for the inside, but I guess that will allow me to make mine more personal. I do believe it's still overpriced for what it is, but what are ya gonna do ?. There's no one else making this kinda stuff, I do want to get their main gate set up once it comes out. :


It looks kinda pimp, if you gate at least two of them.