Dead celebrities |OT| Knock knock knocking on heaven's door

ThunderDan19

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Good to see back around, KT! Been mighty crickety at times around here with you and Eduardo on hiatus...
 

K-Tiger

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Rene Auberjonois passed yesterday. He popped up in all kinds of places, but you'd most likely know him as Odo in Star Trek: Deep Space 9.
 

NSA

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Man, he had a long career.. started in the 60s! He was on MASH!

I thought I'd seen him a lot more than I did, outside of Odo, but don't recall most of his rolls. He did a ton of voiceover work too. RIP ODO.
 

K-Tiger

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Fuck, here's our third. Marie Fredriksson from Roxette passed.
 

K-Tiger

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Anna Karina died, too. I'm not into '60s-'70s French cinema, so...
 

K-Tiger

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I'm not much into Rush, but Peart was a beast on the kit.
 

K-Tiger

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Stan Kirsch from Highlander: The Series has died, apparently it's a suicide.
 

Videoviper

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Behind a camera watching you!
Terry Jones
According to Jones's agent, the comedy legend died Tuesday evening. In a statement, his family said he died “after a long, extremely brave but always good-humored battle with a rare form of dementia, FTD.”
 

K-Tiger

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Jack Kehoe passed, too. Character actor, though less "I know that guy!" than Dick Miller.
 
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K-Tiger

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It's being reported that Kobe Bryant was killed in a helicopter crash.
 

K-Tiger

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The worst bit is that they'll find out it was completely avoidable. I'd bet money it was controlled flight into terrain, and that the conditions were IFR.
 

pcsguy88

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It was so foggy the police choppers were grounded. They had no business being in the air and had to fly so low they were off the radar. Pilot was all over the place and then suddenly shot up to 1700ft before running into the mountain.

Worse than Kobe and daughter is her teammate and both parents. They leave behind a sister in HS with a young adult brother.
 

NSA

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Yeah it was really foggy here yesterday. It usually burns off pretty early, but it stuck around for most of the day yesterday it seemed.

The helicopter crashed across the street from the Middle School I went to, I used to live a couple miles away from there. Kobe was actually heading to the Mamba Sports Academy, where we had our sons birthday party last year.

Really sucks for the families of the others who died too, since Kobe has overshadowed them so much.

Perils of the rich and famous I guess, though not sure if driving around LA is all that much safer.
 

nacho

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I feel bad for his kid and the other passengers, and of course the families. But I have a hard time feeling too bad about the entitled rapist cratering into a mountain. The media and celebs are lionizing this guy, but he was a pretty garbage human being, aside from being a generational athlete. It's amazing that the woke #metoo crowd suddenly gets really quiet when it's one of their own.
 
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ThunderDan19

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Yeah, with all due respect to the families that lost loved ones, the guy put a ball through a hoop (very well, mind you), but, like I told my wife last night, better people than him die every day and don't get any attention at all. I can't throw stones at his life, simply because I don't trust what I've heard for or against his character, and I simply don't care enough to research it far enough to make a judgement. Tragedy? Absolutely. Hero? Nah. Probably not even a decent role model.
 

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I read up on his 2003 rape thing... and... yeah, I don't know. If you take her side, it sounds bad, if you take his side, it sounds like whatever.. truth is probably somewhere in the middle, but I'm not about to execute or exonerate someone over circumstantial evidence. I don't know of really anything else he did in the 'bad' column.

He did do a lot for LA charities, which slots into the 'good' column. He won some championships here and gave me some entertainment (and I hate basketball), so more in the 'good'. His daughter and the other kids being on board really made it all that much worse though. If it was just him, it'd suck, but I don't think it would have been nearly as bad.

As for the attention.. I think it's due to the fact that so many people knew him/knew of him. If any of the randoms who died every day had that many people who knew them, they'd be getting attention too. I don't think it's about "deserving" it or not. I wish the soldiers who died got more recognition, but it is what it is.

It feels a little bad for the other families who died in the same crash to be so overshadowed, but at the same time who even know if you'd WANT the media attention on you right when your wife & daughter/etc die. I don't think I would.
 
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nacho

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Not living in LA, I don't have a lot of knowledge of or appreciation for his good-deeds, but other than being a talented athlete, it's hard to view him much different than weinstein, epstein, or any other stein that thinks it's ok to literally backdoor the nobodies because famous/powerful. That right there tells me what kind of person he is. And if he wasn't the best player of his generation, I wonder if the people praising him would be singing a different tune.

I understand that many rape allegations are a case of he-said/she-said, but he had questionable relations with someone who wasn't his wife. Even if the hotel employee was totally willing, or changed her mind halfway through, or whatever the truth was... it doesn't change the fact that he sodomized a complete stranger because he could. That is not normal, average, everyday behavior for "good people".
 

NSA

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Not living in LA, I don't have a lot of knowledge of or appreciation for his good-deeds, but other than being a talented athlete, it's hard to view him much different than weinstein, epstein, or any other stein that thinks it's ok to literally backdoor the nobodies because famous/powerful. That right there tells me what kind of person he is. And if he wasn't the best player of his generation, I wonder if the people praising him would be singing a different tune.

I understand that many rape allegations are a case of he-said/she-said, but he had questionable relations with someone who wasn't his wife. Even if the hotel employee was totally willing, or changed her mind halfway through, or whatever the truth was... it doesn't change the fact that he sodomized a complete stranger because he could. That is not normal, average, everyday behavior for "good people".
It was vaginal not anal from what I read, and I am sure he was a dumb, rich as hell, 24 year old, who did dumb ass stuff. I don't think that means someone can't learn or change over time. Hell that was 17 years ago! I didn't see anything stand out that he made this a pattern or continued engaging in such behavior over the years.

I don't see how that puts him in the Epstein/Weinstein category of people who systematically abused scores of people over decades.
 

nacho

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Ok, I admit those were exaggerated examples, but still, the fact that it ever happened before kinda tells me all I need to know about the guy. I hope he learned from it, grew, and changed... but history tells us that typically entitled rich f#$ks don't usually morph into upstanding citizens by age 40. They're usually just richer, more entitled f#$ks.

Clearly a lot of people have given him a second chance, but I would argue that has far more to do with his position as a sports-god and Los Angeles status symbol than any massive shifts in moral character. If he were poor, white, or republican, Alyssa Milano would have a movement aimed at destroying him.
 
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pcsguy88

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After the whole Tyreek incident I no longer pass judgement. His crazy ass girlfriend turned out to be 90% guilty for both the college “assault” and the “child abuse”. Turns out Tyreek was her golden ticket and her family was trying to blackmail him.
 

NSA

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Ok, I admit those were exaggerated examples, but still, the fact that it ever happened before kinda tells me all I need to know about the guy. I hope he learned from it, grew, and changed... but history tells us that typically entitled rich f#$ks don't usually morph into upstanding citizens by age 40. They're usually just richer, more entitled f#$ks.

Clearly a lot of people have given him a second chance, but I would argue that has far more to do with his position as a sports-god and Los Angeles status symbol than any massive shifts in moral character. If he were poor, white, or republican, Alyssa Milano would have a movement aimed at destroying him.
So my impression of this is a VERY radical-left mindset. The idea that someones past crime/actions/thoughts make it impossible for them to ever redeem themselves is the antithesis of freedom & forgiveness. That is right out of the "cancel culture" playbook.

Personally, if someone has show no proof that they've continued to be an asshole, I'm not going to crucify them for being an asshole almost 2 decades ago. On top of that, you have numerous confirmed reports of him not being an asshole. From, literally, everything I've seen, he dedicated himself to being a good dad, (*4* daughters, yikes!) and generally being an OK dude. Was he a Mother Theresa or Ghandi or some sort of saint? Nah, and I don't think he should be revered as one. That being said, just due to the sheer exposure so many people had to him over the years, there will be outpourings of sadness and grief and I think those are totally valid, and to be the person in the back going "ACKSHULLY, HE DID A BAD THING!" seems.. I don't know, crass. There is a time & place, and I don't know if it's now, especially with his daughter and the other 7 friends dying at the same time.
 
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pcsguy88

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Our local lib rag finally stepped up to the plate and tweeted out about his past. I'm guessing they had no clue prior to the crash and stumbled upon it online before being triggered.
 

ThunderDan19

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So my impression of this is a VERY radical-left mindset. The idea that someones past crime/actipns/thoughts make it impossible for them to ever redeem themselves is the antithesis of freedom & forgiveness. That is right out of the "cancel culture" playbook.

Personally, if someone has show no proof that they've continued to be an asshole, I'm not going to crucify them for being an asshole almost 2 decades ago. On top of that, you have numerous confirmed reports of him not being an asshole. From, literally, everything I've seen, he dedicated himself to being a good dad, (*4* daughters, yikes!) and generally being an OK dude. Was he a Mother Theresa or Ghandi or some sort of saint? Nah, and I don't think he should be revered as one. That being said, just due to the sheer exposure so many people had to him over the years, there will be outpourings of sadness and grief and I think those are totally valid, and to be the person in the back going "ACKSHULLY, HE DID A BAD THING!" seems.. I don't know, crass. There is a time & place, and I don't know if it's now, especially with his daughter and the other 7 friends dying at the same time.
You make a great argument. I wrote him off years ago, but, from all appearances (and your research), he turned a corner, maybe due to the fallout of that one, very public and very ugly, incident. He stayed with his wife (or she stayed with him - purportedly due to things changing, and I'm sure that crazy expensive ring didn't hurt) throughout and went on to have what, by all appearances, appears to be a solid family.

It's a shame that that part of the story, the "I changed who I am and became something worth emulating, you can too" part, doesn't get the kind of media coverage that the scandals do. There are plenty of young men out there that could learn a very valuable lesson from it, or maybe avoid the rocky beginning all together.

And now it's harder to write this off as just another immoral, insanely wealthy celebrity that died while doing something none of us regular folks would likely ever do even once (fly to an every day engagement via helo). Nice job, Captain... :p
 
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ThunderDan19

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Yeah, that's a tough one. I suppose it only takes thinking about your little girls growing up and what they'll have to navigate to change a dog into a caring father who only wants what's best for his daughters.
 

nacho

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So my impression of this is a VERY radical-left mindset. The idea that someones past crime/actipns/thoughts make it impossible for them to ever redeem themselves is the antithesis of freedom & forgiveness. That is right out of the "cancel culture" playbook.

Personally, if someone has show no proof that they've continued to be an asshole, I'm not going to crucify them for being an asshole almost 2 decades ago. On top of that, you have numerous confirmed reports of him not being an asshole. From, literally, everything I've seen, he dedicated himself to being a good dad, (*4* daughters, yikes!) and generally being an OK dude. Was he a Mother Theresa or Ghandi or some sort of saint? Nah, and I don't think he should be revered as one. That being said, just due to the sheer exposure so many people had to him over the years, there will be outpourings of sadness and grief and I think those are totally valid, and to be the person in the back going "ACKSHULLY, HE DID A BAD THING!" seems.. I don't know, crass. There is a time & place, and I don't know if it's now, especially with his daughter and the other 7 friends dying at the same time.
Like I said, I hope it's true that he really did change. I fully admit that I wrote him off as another rich entitled asshole, and since I don't follow the NBA or their thug-enabling-shitck, I didn't give much credence to the likelihood of him developing into a decent human being. If he did, good on him. But it's not exactly a crime to view a person in their entirety, not just the last couple of years of doing reputation rehab photo ops at the boys-and-girls-club.

And there's a massive difference between acting like a cancel culture lefty and merely cocking an eyebrow when Cheaty-McSportsguy's death is treated like it was Jesus ... by the same community that loves to be the epicenter of cancel culture. Pointing out the strangeness of it and the hollywood hypocrisy was the crux of my original post.

Crass? Maybe if I was posting it on twitter for my 2 million followers and rubbing it in the face of those who are truly grieving. In that case, it would be in extremely poor taste, but here on a message board with three people and some bots... I consider this about as safe as having a conversation in my alexa-enabled livingroom. Unless you're his third cousin, no one with any kind of vested interest in the situation will ever read these posts. Again, I'm saddened for the girls and families, especially the other families that aren't multigagillionares, but it's difficult for me to muster a ton of sadness for a guy I've only heard the worst about.

This feels like the Michael Jackson debate all over again.