Election day...

nacho

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That's where it's headed. In their minds, equality of outcome is key, regardless of how you get there. "It's not fair..." is the mating cry of the habitually lazy, stupid, and "me"-centric nonsense that seems to be dominating the social discourse.

They all want to be a victim, the blame for their failure is clearly someone else's fault (usually straight white dudes). In reality they want to diminish everything you've ever accomplished, every bit of hard work, every opportunity you've taken advantage of, and every risk you've ever taken. It makes them feel better to think that you were born on third base and they weren't, so we should level the scales after the fact.

The problem is, with that mindset, you can't have a rational discussion with them. When you start to ply them with facts and common sense, they scream "privilege!" in the same manner that people try to win arguments by screaming "Nazi!". I genuinely don't know how we're going to penetrate the cone of stupidity.
 

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ThunderDan19

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Yeah, we got a bunch of import donkeys from NY and New England who are pushing their lib/urban policies on the whole state now. Pair that with easily swayed (assumed naturalized) foreigners and there goes freedom and prosperity.
 

nacho

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I agree that TN doesn't have flashing neon that says, "Coastal Elites Welcome". Far from it, thank goodness. We don't really want the blue states to be hyper-aware of what a cool place we have. But we do have pockets of people that have migrated south from Michigan and Ohio, and some halfbacks that came from New York via Florida.

But as long as they have basic intentions of fitting in and embracing the laid-back southern culture, everything's cool. It's those few that constantly tell you in condescending fashion how they "used to do it in NY" that you want to punt into the sun.
 

nacho

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No, we don't get too many of those people, thank heavens. Usually the people that escape from up north are so glad to get away, they roll with us and assimilate just fine. It's weird, west tennessee is very blue, but it's poor in that Detroit sort of way. Middle and East TN are heavily red with no chance of ever flipping. But neither of those two scenarios are appealing to heavy lefties. They would vote the same way as Memphis, but that's where their similarities would end. So we're somewhat immune to the mass influx from blue states problem.

Dollywood and the Great Smokey Mtns National park get a TON of tourism, probably more than Nashville. The smokies are actually the most visited national park in the nation - take THAT Jellystone!
 

NSA

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Written by.. YONI APPELBAUM a dirty JEW????

While anti-Trump, it does make good points.

The world most of us hoped Trump would lead to isn't going to happen, I would say there was a short time when maybe it could have, but the conviction wasn't there, and really.. it probably wouldn't have turned out good either.

I do feel that if you really believe in Democracy, then you do need to accept the outcomes. Certainly fight to keep things fair, but I think both sides are guilty in trying to fix things from time to time. If the "Conservative way" is really the best way, you (general you, not you you) should be able to make that case to people and win them over, regardless on how many handouts or other things are happening on the other side.

I feel that with Trump, and others, people are just retreating into their shell, hoping for a "White 50's time" to show up again, and it's just not going to happen (outside of some huge genocidal campaign, and/or white people suddenly popping out 10-15 babies per couple).

Really, I think the right/GOP/etc needs to come up with a message/solution that helps everyone, and really reinforces why conservative policies are best for America as whole.
 

nacho

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Good article. I agree that the GOP needs to appeal to more groups rather than just an ethnocentric platform. However, I disagree with the notion that the GOP chose that path or that the Great Pumpkin put us on it. I've never heard him say anything racist. The left and media love to say that he's a raging racist and that he hates non-whites, but he's never said that. He talks about securing borders against allowing the worst immigrants in (not all immigrants), and he talks about shithole countries (because they are, not because the people are bad or the wrong color), and of limiting potential terrorists from entering through porous channels.

He's never said we shouldn't have immigration (or what color it should be), just that we need to control/vet who comes in, make sure they're on our team and going to benefit society more than take from it. It's not a crazy notion, however Republicans are completely inept at framing it in a way that doesn't sound like Mr Burns.

Conversely, the opposition has done a great job of painting the GOP as the party of white racist types, when in reality, it's mostly made up of hard-working middle-class folks who are simply not onboard with the PC/woke nonsense and all the "free everything" giveaway programs at our expense and letting our country get overrun by hand-out freeloaders (no one actually cares what color they are). These are concepts that should appeal to a vast majority of americans, but the messenger is such a tweeting moron, and the media twists every word, those concepts don't come across. He makes the left's job pretty easy.

So while the GOP absolutely does need to get the message out that there is room for others in the party and that we're actually the party of sanity and prosperity, I think it requires a radical marketing pivot, not of actual policy change. They need to frame the goal of republicans as protectors of opportunity and the great american dream, not those who guarantee a socialist race to the bottom and free stuff.

It's not white vs brown. It's not rich vs poor. It's workers vs freeloaders. That should be the message. That will make it clear the GOP includes every hard working immigrant, minority, or group that wants to not be Venezuela. Make the left defend it's insane policies rather than simply convincing everyone that they're a victim.
 

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There is definitely some misleading going on, but what is not deniable is that the actual white racist types love Trump & what Trump (usually) says. Now, not everyone who likes what he says is a racist, and Trump shouldn't be lumped in as a racist because racists like him.. but it does beg the question why white racists do like him so much.

He's a troll. He knows what to say and how to say it without saying it. As much as I hate the left's use of the word "dogwhistle" it IS a thing, and Trump is great at throwing in little words here and there that ARE NORMAL but if you're predisposed to being a racist, you're going to get extra mileage out of them. I'm not convinced he cares about anything really (other than himself) but he knows how to stoke up controversy and get people riled up.

So either way, when racists are openly supporting you (while also being open racists) it really taints the whole pool.

I'd say it's similar to those people with their OBAMA PHONES back in the day, they made him & his policies look stupid because you have these society leaches (DOGWHISTLE OF COURSE MEANING BLACK PEOPLE ARE TRASH) voting for Obama only for handouts/etc.

So I don't know, there isn't really a great way unless he spends all his time actively rebuking them and their support.. which.. I mean that's not a strong policy that will get you anywhere. BUT by not doing that, he's allowing them to make the narrative about how he's TALKING TO RACISTS. And of course talking, being in the same room with, or accidentally seeing a racist once.. makes you a racist.

There are lots of things going on, but actual full on racist white ethnostate people absolutely do exist, and I'd say they almost exclusively live on the right now. The right needs to do a better job weeding them out.

The article made good points, and I do think the right & left are veering away from each other rapidly. A lot of 'normal' people I think are still in the middle somewhere, but when all you're exposed to is media claiming everyone is a fanatic.. you'll start to budge one way or another after enough time.
 

nacho

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There are lots of things going on, but actual full on racist white ethnostate people absolutely do exist, and I'd say they almost exclusively live on the right now. The right needs to do a better job weeding them out.
Sure, but they're 0.001% of the population. The news would have you believe that it's 87% of republicans.

I live in the rural south and I've never met anyone that willingly admits to holding those beliefs. I'm confident there are way more muslims in this country that want to see the entire place burn to the ground than actual white ethnostate racists. Yet Dems actively embrace those people because minority. The two sides are not held to the same standards, largely because the people crafting the national narrative are decidedly in one camp.
 
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pcsguy88

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I need to read up on Tulsi Gabbard because I like what I hear. If she gets the boot and runs as a Libertarian, then Trump will likely lose badly. Tulsi certainly pisses all the right people off like Trump did except she does it without all the nonsense.

 
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NSA

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I do feel like white racist ethnostate people are around. Hell, we have/had one here on our stupid toy website! I don't think the vast majority of them are out and out chanting and parading and being racist in public.. but if you're behind closed doors, the idea gains more traction.

I don't know that it is necessarily a bad or strange thing though, as most countries for the entirety of existence were more or less ethnostates. The ones I can think of that maybe weren't, had a repressive minority in charge. The reason people clumped together into countries was usually because they were all the same.

I mean, the US, well colonies between 1610 and 1750 was between "100%" white and 79.8% white (though I would guess they didn't really survey indians and others). 1850.. 83% white. 1920.. 88% white. 1950.. 87%.. 1980.. 79%!

2010.. 63%. So I would say between 1610 and 2000, the US was basically a white ethnostate for all intents and purposes. Of course, part of this depends on what you consider white, as for a time Italians and IRISH (?? Are there more WHITE people than IRISH?) weren't even considered white. Some Hispanics are considered white too, so who knows.

The 2020 census will be interesting as well. Obviously I think it'll continue the trend.

Looking at the data, from 1970 to 1980, whites increased by about 11 million. 1980 to 1990 that was down to 8 million. 1990 to 2000 was only 6 million. 2000 to 2010 was only 2 million. If that trend continues, 2010 to 2020 could be an increase as small as 1 million, or even a net decrease in white people.

Lots of reason why white people are barely replacing themselves.. but none of it likely has to do with any other races. Likely a lot of white people are decently well off and putting off having kids to enjoy their nice life. Or 1 or 2 kids is "enough" for most people. So based on that, demographics are going to change. Without the hispanic "explosion" (35 million between 1980 and 2010, whites only grew 16 million in the same time frame), we might be in a Japan-style population decline.

The result of all this? White people be cray cray. Things are changing, and it's outside of basically everyone's control. It's going to happen.. and some people's reaction is to get mad and blame other people. Most people don't like change.. so it's easy to rile these people up.
 

nacho

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I don't care what color people are as long as they're contributing to society and have some semblance of the values that our country cares about. Hard work and some kind of judeo-christian ethics, that's all I ask. Beyond that, I don't care what you look like, where you're from, or where or whether you go to church. None of that is nearly as important for society-building as people contributing and having common sensibilities. The minute you become a voluntary freebie-sponge or a perma-vicitm, my tolerance goes out the window.

No doubt, science has proven that the better off you are, the less kids you have. So in theory, as dynamics change, so will birth rates among ethnic groups. If whites fall far enough, we'll be the ones having 10 kids while the wealthy hispanics are just having two. Who knows. I'll be long dead and it'll be someone else's problem.

And then you have the mixing. Lots of mixing. I don't even know what my kids classify as. If they're applying for a mortgage, they're going to be pearly white. If they're applying to college, they're going to be hispanic as fuck. I have no clue how the census will classify our family. And I suspect there are a lot of people like us that are no longer just one group, which only muddies the water.
 
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NSA

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The census started including "mixed" or more than 1 race or something in the last couple of decades, so I imagine that number will increase.. though like you say, they have the options of identifying "AS THEY WISH" when asked, so who knows how accurate it'll be.

And I absolutely think you believe what you say and it's not a big issue. I just absolutely believe a lot of people are not as nice as you and will not be happy when they're suddenly the minority. In reality, for the vast majority of people I can't see this actually impacting them for decades. White people are still literally everywhere, and if you're in an area that's close to being a minority (or already a minority) you would have seen this coming years and years ago. White people tend to move away to other white areas when this type of thing is coming (which ironically contributes to the diversity change).

The problem (on the left and right) is getting people PRE-SCARED about this. You can absolutely make it sound scary, and get people to start worrying and adjusting their thinking now.. years before anything is going to happen. This leads people to get more racist (probably without their real knowledge) and pits people against each other (because that's how the politicians win).

It sucks, and the divisive politicians on both sides know they can exploit this to get elected now and who the fuck cares about the future.
 

nacho

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I agree that both sides are scare-mongers. The far right wants you to think that as soon as they get 51%, they're going to string up all the white people. And the far left preaches that we're all racists who want anyone who looks different to be fucking dead. Sadly, the tactic has proven itself to work, time and time again, despite the fact that most people just want to live their lives and have an opportunity to prosper. However, it's the people really excited about backing the "free everything" socialists that scare the hell out of me.

But like you say, shifting demographics are not likely to majorly affect East TN for a VERY long time, and I've future-proofed my kids by infusing them with super two-race DNA that they can use to their advantage for decades to come. At the time I married the wife, I was just proud to be diversifying the gene pool a bit, but I feel extra smart now ;)
 
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nacho

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All of the Dem candidates seem like lightweights. Each one of them has profound flaws that Trump will exploit. Not that he doesn't have plenty of flaws himself, but he can dismiss them so easily while eviscerating the other candidates with such precision. I just don't see any of them even giving him a solid run. Not Joe, not Pocahontas, not Bernie, not Buti-naga-naga-nagonnaworkhereanymore.
 

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It's kind of amazing to me how... BAD their candidates are.

I kind of like whatshername.. Tulsa? Tulsi? Whatever her name is, she seems like the most reasonable.. so of course most of the left hate her.

They really have something to hate about all of them, which is odd. Some love Bernie, others hate him, some love Warren, but others rightfully see through her schlock. I think most of the moderates like Biden, but the far left HATE him for being too moderate.
 

ThunderDan19

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Yeah, and they don't seem to have a Trump type to stand out like he did against the GOPs. Beto was trying (too hard, obviously) to be the anti-Trump. With all the other noise, he just came off as the wannabe that he is. I wonder if Bloooooooomberg thinks he's up to it...
 

nacho

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While I would argue that most traditional republicans don't love Trump (I know I don't), we all held our noses and got behind him because the alternative was worse.

But the left reviles anyone and anything that isn't pegging the left-o-meter. I can't see them backing a left-center democrat like Biden, and the far-lefters can't possibly get enough normal people to vote for their wacky candidates. I hope this means that they'll be disenfranchised and just won't show up. It happened with W, winning the popular vote the second time, despite having lost the popular vote the first time around and having low approval ratings.

The whole field is a bunch of duds that trump will chew up and spit out. I agree Tulsi is the most reasonable of them, and the democrats have called her "not a democrat" and a "Russian asset". This is her own damn party! And she's probably way further left than any democrat president we've ever had.

They're simply going to race hard to the left to get the nomination and then backpedal hard to try to win the general. But I think it will backfire when the far left sees it's been played.
 

NSA

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It's interesting how so many of them dislike Hillary now.. but were all on board Nov 7th 2016.

There will be a bunch that come together and vote for whomever the candidate is, but the vocal part of the party will not be happy unless it's their person. But half of them like Warren and half like Sanders, and those two tend not to like each other.

2020 is going to be super fun to watch them rip each other to pieces as the field narrows.

Also, had to watch this again for old times sake, never ceases to put a smile on my face: The day that changed everything: Election 2016, as it happened - CNNPolitics