Election day...

NSA

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The left is tying themselves in knots over Biden.. and it's glorious. The radical side thinks he's a groper and raper and evil white man.. while the more rational over there are saying JUST VOTE FOR HIM.

This will be fun to watch over the next months.. I don't see them being unified for a while.
 

nacho

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It's hard to be unified when none of them (far-lefties or moderates) actually believe he would make a good or effective president. It's tough to build enthusiasm for an alzheimer's patient suspected of being a perv and corrupt, knowing that he'll be a puppet for some even less scrupulous players.

I can't imagine how tough of a sale that is to their own party, much less the undecideds. But in reality, I am confident that the election will come down to a poll on how this crisis come out. It might not be fair, but anything trump has done, good or bad, will be irrelevant outside of the administration's virus response.
 

nacho

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Damn straight. Problem is, no matter when things reopen, he's going to be hit with "too soon" and "not soon enough" complaints simultaneously. There is no scenario in which he makes very many people happy. If he tries to get things going, he's going to be accused of killing grandma to boost Exxon's share price, and if he keeps things locked down, unemployment is going to break 30% and he'll be a dead man walking.

The only thing working in trump's favor is the absolute zero he'll be running against.
 

pcsguy88

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I noticed the people screaming to stay locked down until a vaccine is available are all anti-Trumpers. Bet they’d want things opened as soon as Biden won the vote in November (can’t even type that with a straight face).
 

ThunderDan19

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We’re most definitely entering the fully coordinated “Trump did bad against COVID!!!1!1” phase now.
 

ThunderDan19

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It sucks, but he'll have to remind everyone what he did an when he did it every time he's at the briefings, because you know right well the media will never tell it straight. It gets old and sounds like he's always bragging, but really he's just making sure the American people know what actually happened.
 

ThunderDan19

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Losing its mind? Gov. Blackface and company are trying really hard to make it easy to defraud the election process to keep his ilk in the driver's seat. There are a lot of ways this could go, most of them ugly.
 

nacho

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I've never understood why showing an ID was such a horrible burden. You can't fly without showing ID. You can't do a lot of other things without ID. Why is voting different?

I agree that the only valid reason to oppose ID requirements is because you plan to cheat like hell. Harvesting (with a side of culling), voting multiple times, voting for dead people, registering non-citizens... all of it will be pretty simple when you do away with any kind of regulation.
 

NSA

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I guess the only flimsy argument is that it somehow is harder on poor minorities or something? But shouldn't they have an ID just like everyone else?

Voter ID laws deprive many voters of their right to vote, reduce participation, and stand in direct opposition to our country’s trend of including more Americans in the democratic process. Many Americans do not have one of the forms of identification states acceptable for voting. These voters are disproportionately low-income, racial and ethnic minorities, the elderly, and people with disabilities. Such voters more frequently have difficulty obtaining ID, because they cannot afford or cannot obtain the underlying documents that are a prerequisite to obtaining government-issued photo ID card.
Oppose Voter ID Legislation - Fact Sheet

Basically they boil it down as it's "too hard" for poor minorities to bother getting an ID, so we should scrap the whole system.

Voter ID Laws Are Discriminatory
  • Minority voters disproportionately lack ID. Nationally, up to 25% of African-American citizens of voting age lack government-issued photo ID, compared to only 8% of whites.6
  • States exclude forms of ID in a discriminatory manner. Texas allows concealed weapons permits for voting, but does not accept student ID cards. Until its voter ID law was struck down, North Carolina prohibited public assistance IDs and state employee ID cards, which are disproportionately held by Black voters. And until recently, Wisconsin permitted active duty military ID cards, but prohibited Veterans Affairs ID cards for voting.
  • Voter ID laws are enforced in a discriminatory manner. A Caltech/MIT study found that minority voters are more frequently questioned about ID than are white voters.7
  • Voter ID laws reduce turnout among minority voters. Several studies, including a 2014 GAO study, have found that photo ID laws have a particularly depressive effect on turnout among racial minorities and other vulnerable groups, worsening the participation gap between voters of color and whites.8
Uh huh.. so why not work on getting those people ID's then? Shouldn't people WANT them to have ID's to get around and do normal daily stuff.. seems like that would be a bigger issue.

The only part I guess I can agree with is:

Voter ID Requirements are a Solution in Search of a Problem
  • In-person fraud is vanishingly rare. A recent study found that, since 2000, there were only 31 credible allegations of voter impersonation – the only type of fraud that photo IDs could prevent – during a period of time in which over 1 billion ballots were cast.9
  • Identified instances of “fraud” are honest mistakes. So-called cases of in-person impersonation voter “fraud” are almost always the product of an elections worker or a voter making an honest mistake, and that even these mistakes are extremely infrequent.10
  • Voter ID laws are a waste of taxpayer dollars. States incur sizeable costs when implementing voter ID laws, including the cost of educating the public, training poll workers, and providing IDs to voters.
    • Texas spent nearly $2 million on voter education and outreach efforts following passage of its Voter ID law.11
    • Indiana spent over $10 million to produce free ID cards between 2007 and 2010.12
I don't know how widespread it really is, though I can't imagine in person fraud is systemic. Seems like mail-in ballots would be better at that.
 

ThunderDan19

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Voter fraud is not reported because the people who report side with the people who cheat. People who cheat get elected and then (obviously) won't pursue the problem. There is anecdotal reporting of districts where more people voted than lived there and 100% of some districts going to a single candidate... 100%. Not one dissenter... Yeah... :rolleyes:
 
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nacho

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Most states require an ID just to get a ballot to vote by mail or absentee. When the dems start to try to do away with those limitations, I get very nervous. Fraud is practically guaranteed.

But I call bullshit on the poor minority people who can't afford an ID. Do none of these people drive legally? Do none of them ever fly? Do none of them ever get healthcare or checking accounts? Do they lack SSN's too?

If Dems cared, they'd fix the problem, not cripple our faith in democratic elections. Subsidize state issued IDs or waive the fees for low-income citizens. Eliminate fees for getting a copy of the birth certificate if it's required to get an ID. Everyone has some kind of address and a bill that comes there. I've never heard of an adult that has zero bills. If a few gubment dollars is all it takes to get these people an ID, then fix THAT problem. Then we can all vote and have faith that the system is fair and working like it's supposed to.

Of course, all of that requires the problem to actually exist as they say. It doesn't. No one is so poor that over the course of a year they can't scrape up enough money to get an ID. It's not an actual problem. It's a made up excuse for why we need to legislate cheat-codes to our democracy, and it's sickening.
 

ThunderDan19

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I'm of the opinion that to vote two of the following three things should be true of an individual: 1.) They have paid federal taxes (income, property, etc.) in the past year. 2.) They are a exempt from paying taxes due to a fully documented disability and have paid taxes at some point in their lifetime. 3.) They are a full citizen of the United States with a legit ID to prove it. And I darn near put land ownership in that as well, but understand that maybe people can be fully productive at certain times in their life without actually owning property, but I do know you are more so when you own where you live.
 

NSA

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I'm of the opinion that to vote two of the following three things should be true of an individual: 1.) They have paid federal taxes (income, property, etc.) in the past year. 2.) They are a exempt from paying taxes due to a fully documented disability and have paid taxes at some point in their lifetime. 3.) They are a full citizen of the United States with a legit ID to prove it. And I darn near put land ownership in that as well, but understand that maybe people can be fully productive at certain times in their life without actually owning property, but I do know you are more so when you own where you live.
I do agree that putting restrictions like land ownership opens up a whole can of worms. So if only landowners can vote, what stops them from making it harder for others to own land/etc. In theory I like the idea, but in practice.. people generally always suck.
 
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NSA

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The only case Biden can make is if Trump somehow presides over a nation-wide catastrophe.

Right now I don't think it's been bad enough to move the needle too far either way. He hasn't shown enough leadership to win new votes, but people aren't dying in droves or him seeming incompetent to lose votes either.

Summer is gonna be key, if people are doing OK come election time, I don't think Biden can win.
 

nacho

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She's an identity politics pick. She can give a great speech, and she's an effective attack-dog when she has time to rehearse. However, the book on her is that she's a bigtime lightweight when asked a question she doesn't expect, and she has no experience with the economy or foreign policy.

Combine that with what she brings to the table on the electoral map, she'll undoubtedly deliver.... California to the Dems? It's baffling.
 

NSA

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Yeah I don't see her helping with anywhere outside of the coasts.. where they don't have trouble anyways. I guess they're hoping on ol' White Man Biden to bring in the midwest?

I want to see BLM's take, since she was the top cop in CA for a while, aren't ALL COPS BASTARDS?
 

nacho

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She's a chameleon and actress, and a good one IMO. It's well-known that she will say or do anything, take any position or policy to get what she wants. She has no platform, no policy, and no actual substance. She's a perfect match for Sleepy Joe, as she's just an empty vessel for whatever the DNC puppet-masters come up with, just like Joe.

Kamala is going to be campaigning for '24 from Day-1. It's going to be nauseating. However, I'm not convinced that Joe makes it to election day. I think there is a real chance she leads the ticket by November.
 

K-Tiger

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Joe/Blow 2020!

Eh, the nation watched her get blown the fuck out by Tulsi Gabbard, and she threw in the towel months before any primary votes were even cast. Somethin' ain't stirrin' the Kool-Aid.


He's a parenthetical "white".
 

nacho

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Joe/Blow 2020!

Eh, the nation watched her get blown the fuck out by Tulsi Gabbard, and she threw in the towel months before any primary votes were even cast. Somethin' ain't stirrin' the Kool-Aid.
She brings nothing to the table except "attack-dog". She doesn't poll well, isn't popular with hard lefty democrats because "cop", has flip-flopped on many key issues, currently supports all the ultra-left talking points -- especially anti-energy that dominates swing state votes, and she hails from Cali which wasn't in play politically but gives all the "we don't want to end up like California" people plenty of leverage against the ticket.

Other than a couple of well-rehearsed one-liners in a VP debate that very few will watch, she's a baffling choice.
 
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