Florida School Shooting

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#41
Yeah, at some point they're not "coming fer ya guns!" it's just common sense. I think any legislation should be clear on that fact though, as slippery slopes do exist (CA is big on that).

But doing absolutely nothing is a real bad look, especially for the NRA and anyone linked to them right now. If even we're talking about this.. you better believe normal people are too.
 

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#42
Arming teachers is a great deterrent. Sure, they can't act quickly enough, but that's not the point. The point is that a shooter would be much more reluctant to do this kind of thing if they knew that there would be potential resistance. That the possibility that they might get shot exists. As it is now, they KNOW that they have zero to fear. The only place we see these shootings is in places where the perps know that they themselves are safe.

Aside from that, complete lock down of all schools. One-way doors. You can only be let in if someone lets you in. PITA? Sure, but that's better than the alternative.

There is no governmental legislation that will stop this aside from raising the age to purchase to something like 25 when a males brain is fully developed. Though with the meds and drugs they are all on, their brains are permanently screwed up.

Then there's the possibility that these are conspiracy false flag situations. How do you stop that?! We've seen what lengths they were willing to go to try and win this past election. The corruption and terrifyingly illegal use of the FBI/CIA/DOJ. Is it really that hard to believe that they might be behind these things to try and sway this Novembers elections? Probably not, but I most certainly wouldn't be surprised.

Fix the symptoms? :laugh: Seriously, ALL of the societal symptoms that have been forced on us? Fix social media that contributes to this? Fix the prevalent violence and hate in media, games, TV, movies, news, etc? Fix kids being prescribed drugs because boys are "too hyper and can't focus!"? Fix the division and politics that are making their way into schools?? Fix fatherless homes? Fix the dismantling of the traditional family and Christianity? Fix people even thinking that all of what I just said isn't a problem?

 
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K-Tiger

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#43
I think we should stop raising fuck-ups. Granted, there will always be legit sociopaths, but a lot of these monsters are ones we created.
 

pcsguy88

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#44
Arming teachers is a great deterrent. Sure, they can't act quickly enough, but that's not the point. The point is that a shooter would be much more reluctant to do this kind of thing if they knew that there would be potential resistance. That the possibility that they might get shot exists. As it is now, they KNOW that they have zero to fear. The only place we see these shootings is in places where the perps know that they themselves are safe.

Aside from that, complete lock down of all schools. One-way doors. You can only be let in if someone lets you in. PITA? Sure, but that's better than the alternative.

There is no governmental legislation that will stop this aside from raising the age to purchase to something like 25 when a males brain is fully developed. Though with the meds and drugs they are all on, their brains are permanently screwed up.

Then there's the possibility that these are conspiracy false flag situations. How do you stop that?! We've seen what lengths they were willing to go to try and win this past election. The corruption and terrifyingly illegal use of the FBI/CIA/DOJ. Is it really that hard to believe that they might be behind these things to try and sway this Novembers elections? Probably not, but I most certainly wouldn't be surprised.

Fix the symptoms? :laugh: Seriously, ALL of the societal symptoms that have been forced on us? Fix social media that contributes to this? Fix the prevalent violence and hate in media, games, TV, movies, news, etc? Fix kids being prescribed drugs because boys are "too hyper and can't focus!"? Fix the division and politics that are making their way into schools?? Fix fatherless homes? Fix the dismantling of the traditional family and Christianity? Fix people even thinking that all of what I just said isn't a problem?


When you raise a kid up to middle school/high school age, I think you’ll change your mind on wanting their teachers to have guns. You know, the same liberal teachers that mold the little snow flakes? You want them to be responsible for a gun (that can’t be locked up to be an effective deterrent) and manage to keep it away from 700 kids on a daily basis?
 

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#45
Yeah, the logistics of having armed teachers is.... problematic, even if you can get them to be armed. Supposedly at this location there was an armed security guard, but he was in another part of the school. I don't think it's a bad thing, any deterrent is good, but I don't think it should be a "Ah! There, we solved it!" kind of thing.

Not raising shitty kids is also a very good thing to try and do.. and that is a much wider problem. The drugs? Could be a cause.. people should be talking about that too.

The problem is the right and the left get stuck on their talking points and completely reject the others opinions, even if they make sense.
 

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#47
Did they have to admit that for that to be known? I mean, obviously, right? 🤨

People just aren't being realistic. The f$#@ed up society they've created is the cause. Were school shootings a problem in the past? Nope. There truly is no fixing this. Going back is the only way and we all know that that isn't happening. No new legislature will prevent this. The things that need to be done won't or can't. Responsibility needs to be taken and that sure as heck isn't going to happen either.

Kids are getting celebrity status for these things. Unless MSM stops giving that to that them, this will only continue/escalate.

Seriously, realistically, do you guys have some suggestions besides pie in the sky ideas?
 

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#48
Did they have to admit that for that to be known? I mean, obviously, right? 🤨

People just aren't being realistic. The f$#@ed up society they've created is the cause. Were school shootings a problem in the past? Nope. There truly is no fixing this. Going back is the only way and we all know that that isn't happening. No new legislature will prevent this. The things that need to be done won't or can't. Responsibility needs to be taken and that sure as heck isn't going to happen either.

Kids are getting celebrity status for these things. Unless MSM stops giving that to that them, this will only continue/escalate.

Seriously, realistically, do you guys have some suggestions besides pie in the sky ideas?
this is the second time the FBI failed to do anything to stop a mass shooting in Florida. IN THE SAME COUNTY TOO!!. The airport shooter just over a year ago was also known by the FBI and they did nothing to stop him.
 

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#49
I mean in this case they got a very very detailed warning a month ago and did nothing. Obviously the fault solely lies with the shooter, but the FBI fucked up big time. The YouTube post from last year sometime.. sure.. okay people post shit like that all the time, I can somewhat excuse that not being taken super seriously.


This though, they fucked up, and I can't imagine how that makes the families feel right now.

Also, I guess the White Nationalist stuff was a dud, I've seen it retracted in a lot of places.

As for what can be done? That isn't pie in the sky?

How about like PCS said, made gun ownership more like car owning & operating.

"Kids" under 21 don't need a gun. They should be allowed to go to the range with their parents, or use one while supervised, but they can't OWN it. The responsibility for the weapon falls on the parent/adult. I would like for there to be a provision that local state & counties can pass superseding rules for these, in places where hunting is a super big thing, maybe you can lower the age limit if people vote on it.

Argument? Well, criminals will find a way to get a gun illegally! While.. sure, I am sure that is a possibility, how many of these school shootings were committed with illegally obtained weapons? I can't think of one, though I imagine there is a small handful. Like you said previously that a sign that teachers may be armed may deter some of these shooters.. not being able to legally buy or obtain a guy would likely deter some more of them. Hell I wouldn't even know how to go about buying a guy from a gang banger without getting myself robbed/killed.. how are these dumbass kids supposed to?

Make a gun safety and responsibility course MANDATORY for any gun purchase. Make people renew it every 2 or 3 years or something. You can't get a drivers license without passing a stupid test, why not apply the same logic here? I've taken these in the past and they're mostly stupid questions. Find a way to make it actually worth while. Gun stores don't care that you actually know what you're doing, they just want the sale. Find some way to add an incentive to that.

Background checks mandatory for all weapon purchases and person to person transfers. I can't see a negative for this, unless you're afraid of being flagged.. which is worrying anyway.

Mental health bans *AND* a way to dispute or get yourself off the list. If you did something stupid as a kid or whatever and now you're a grown ass adult without stupid teenager angst, you shouldn't be restricted if you can pass a test or something.

None of this stops me, as a normal, non-crazy gun owner from enjoying my constitutional rights, but it may add a few roadblocks to asshole who want to do some bad shit. We need to start being more flexible with all things, try things out, try to find solutions, don't fall back to "nothing can be done about this!".
 

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#53
Ehhhhhhhh.

Doesn't really apply to recent events. He's more advocating against banning "evil black guns" than anything else.

There is nothing that leads me to believe if the teachers were armed in this situation it would have turned out any different. Could it have? Sure. Could the teachers have missed their target (due to them being teachers, not cops or military) and hit someone else? Sure. I don't think it's a BAD idea, but it's a solution that realistically only has a partial chance to succeed, and even then, probably wont stop the event entirely. If there is a security guard who is armed, and the shooter knows that, he can either take him out first, or more like, just avoid his patrol route. If teachers are known to be armed, aim for them first, or again, avoid them. A student would likely, over time, gain knowledge of who has guns and who doesn't, their patterns, how quick they are, etc.

So, again, it seems a lot better to work on a way where they don't get access to the gun in the first place. I'm asking you people, since you typically seem relatively wise and straight-thinking, to think of ways to accomplish that? How do we keep guns out of bad peoples hands without unfairly impacting normal law-abiding gun owners. The answer isn't and can't be "nothing". That's looking at the problem in the same way the far left looks at it. No answer other than "BAN ALL GUNS" is acceptable for them. There has to be somewhere we can meet in the middle that actually makes sense for the USA, our Culture, and our people.
 

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#54
Another thing, it's different trying to solve different problems.

"School shootings" is a different problem than "gun violence". School shootings includes gun violence, but not all gun violence is a school shooting. Which is more pressing? People react a lot more to seeing kids gunned down vs gang bangers off'ing each other in Chicago or Detroit or wherever. That all falls under "gun violence" though.

I think addressing the current school shooting craze would be prudent, as it would help prevent even more kneejerk reactions from taking hold.
 

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#55
There has to be somewhere we can meet in the middle that actually makes sense for the USA, our Culture, and our people.
You've seen how the left dealt with "meeting in the middle" on immigration, right? Trump said fine, we'll amnesty all of these law breakers, but we want to prevent illegal immigration from continuing to happen. The left has continually told him to get bent. It's either their way or the highway. They want amnesty AND open borders. They want it all.

So yeah, they'll take anything that slowly erodes citizens gun rights. But that won't be enough. They'll want more regulations, more hoops, more hurdles, more money to "play". They'll want more and more and more and more until they finally get what they really want: They have guns. We have none.

Not hyperbole ⤴

I mentioned the only thing I'm okay with: not being able to purchase or own until the age of 25 when the brain of a male is fully developed. You can shoot with your parents or legal guardian (Starlord, Draxx, Rocket, Groot, whateverhernameis). If you gain access and hurt yourself or other people, the parent is equally prosecuted. Harsh enough punishments should make parents think twice about how lackadaisical they can be in regards to ease of access to their firearms. I'm even okay extending this age restriction to alcohol. Yup. 😲

Background checks. Isn't that already a thing? 🤨

Mental health restrictions. I'm suspicious of that one. Slippery slope. "You were on depression meds 10 years ago because your wife died? BANNED!" Yeah, it's not that ridiculous now, but refer to my "more and more and more and..." comment.

As for licencing, taxing, registering, insuring, whatever... basically feeing the law abiding on yet another thing? No. The rest of us should not be punished forever because kids (and the occasional adult) on ADHD/Aspergers/depression/anxiety/SSRI meds can't vent like civilized people.
 

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#56
I like your ideas, Eddie. 25 is a reasonable number for firearms. And, sorry to say, if you don't have a guardian that can own "your" guns before then, there's a pretty good chance you've suffered some trauma that might have damaged your psyche anyway. Also, if you are on any antidepressants, are in counseling, have exhibited suicidal tendencies, off the qualification list, at least until you are off the meds and cleared by your counselor. Only stipulation I would make would be for military and law enforcement. Newbies there at least have the mental screening and firearms training to ensure they are not nearly as likely to do something stupid or shoot up a school.

Additionally, I think maybe the FBI and local sheriffs department should do their job to try to head these things off, instead of ignoring all the (20 was it?) warnings next time. If anyone exhibited the kind of behavior that should have had the full attention of law enforcement, it was this kid. He should have had surveilance 24/7. This kid was apparently full of hate, and, had it not been a gun, it would have been a knife, or a bat, or a car. Some people are just monsters.
 

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#57
I like your ideas, Eddie. 25 is a reasonable number for firearms. And, sorry to say, if you don't have a guardian that can own "your" guns before then, there's a pretty good chance you've suffered some trauma that might have damaged your psyche anyway. Also, if you are on any antidepressants, are in counseling, have exhibited suicidal tendencies, off the qualification list, at least until you are off the meds and cleared by your counselor. Only stipulation I would make would be for military and law enforcement. Newbies there at least have the mental screening and firearms training to ensure they are not nearly as likely to do something stupid or shoot up a school.

Additionally, I think maybe the FBI and local sheriffs department should do their job to try to head these things off, instead of ignoring all the (20 was it?) warnings next time. If anyone exhibited the kind of behavior that should have had the full attention of law enforcement, it was this kid. He should have had surveilance 24/7. This kid was apparently full of hate, and, had it not been a gun, it would have been a knife, or a bat, or a car. Some people are just monsters.
I hate to be that guy but I am on medication for ADHD and I’ve heard of people saying ADHD should be on that list but. I have been shooting since I was in elementary school. Never have I thought of shooting up anything or anyone
 

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#58
I hate to be that guy but I am on medication for ADHD and I’ve heard of people saying ADHD should be on that list but. I have been shooting since I was in elementary school. Never have I thought of shooting up anything or anyone
Obviously the majority of everyone, including those on meds aren't going fly off the handle. Though it does seem that the majority that do do these kinds of things are on meds, or have family trauma, or no father, or have some kind of mental deficiency, or all of the above.

Does the media ever mention the medication angle, or are they avoiding it for some strange reason?
 

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#59
Obviously the majority of everyone, including those on meds aren't going fly off the handle. Though it does seem that the majority that do do these kinds of things are on meds, or have family trauma, or no father, or have some kind of mental deficiency, or all of the above.

Does the media ever mention the medication angle, or are they avoiding it for some strange reason?
I do not know allthough I must say ADHD Is not something that should prevent me from owning a gun even if I am not on meds. Currently I am going off of them so I may enlist in the military. I am perfectly fine without them
 

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#60
ADHD just means your attention is scrambled. If anything it means it would take you twice the effort to plan something and then carry it out. Who has time for that?

It’s the young adults on shit like Wellbutrin and other emotion bending drugs out there that need not own a gun. If you cannot train your brain to get thru the letdowns of life without a chemical safety cushion, then why should I trust your unstable emotions with a tool of rapid death?
 
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#61
ADHD just means your attention is scrambled. If anything it means it would take you twice the effort to plan something and then carry it out. Who has time for that?

It’s the young adults on shit like Wellbutrin and other emotion bending drugs out there that need not own a gun. If you cannot train your brain to get thru the letdowns of life without a chemical safety cushion, then why should I trust your unstable emotions with a tool of rapid death?
Another thing I should mention is the condition ACC or agnesis of the corpus callosum although I do not have any of the major symptoms my main issue was social things growing up. I’ve heard of ACC also being considered which I find to be unfair
ACC
Here’s the Wikipedia on the disorder
 

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#64
I mean they need to find some way to follow up on leads like this and make sure they don't fall through the cracks, and/or come up with some sort of solution to do something about this type of person.

Issue comes up though.. when do you detain him and/or remove his guns? The NRA will say "IT WILL BE YOU NEXT!" and then everyone will get scared that by taking away Nikolas Cruz's guns, it means they'll come for our guns next.. there has to be some sort of logical point where someone is a threat, so much so, it overrides their 2nd amendment rights.

Same with medications, there should be a list, and if you're on it, too bad so sad. Is everyone on the meds a killer? Obviously not, but there is enough risk that I think it'd be reasonable to keep guns out of their hands. THAT BEING SAID, how do you maintain a list like that? Like Eddie said, what if you were on meds 10 years ago because you were a depressed kid, but are much better now? What if you buy a gun today and then get meds next week? Without keeping a full database of people on meds AND people with guns.. it becomes unwieldy. Of course people don't like being on lists, so they won't get mental help, won't get the meds, and will keep the guns and their depression (which also isn't good).

All of this just circles and circles and ends up with nothing. Doing nothing and letting this happen again is the fastest way to an overwhelming 'ban on guns' being a reality. At some point everyone has a tipping point. Without some sort of real, actionable change (that protects gun ownership) from the Right, people are only getting opinions and suggestions and propaganda from the left. "Guns don't kill people, people kill people!" is old and tired and needs to be put out to pasture.
 

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#65
For the meds thing, I think it needs to be an age like Eddie suggested. It seems like fully developed humans can handle the meds and handle gun ownership at the same time. Who is the oldest school shooter? Obviously we cant ever stop ideological shootings like Pulse and Vegas, but those are rare enough we can live with them.
 

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#66
When they're adults killing mostly adults, it's easy to hand-wave that away as senseless crime, or whatever.

School shootings are not any more or less serious than gang crime in Chicago or Drug Syndicate crime along the border.. but it's children dying.. so people feel extra double special bad. Like how puppies getting tossed in the river is more important than a bunch of squirrels. I don't think that'll change, it seems hard wired into us. Is it right? Nah, but it is what it is. The 'Right' and "NRA" need to recognize that. Staying silent and hoping it goes away usually works, but like I said, sometime soon it's going to reach the tipping point when a ton of people won't even care what laws get passed as long as it purports to stop the school shootings.

Looking at Wikipedia..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shootings_in_the_United_States#2010s

It seems MOST of them involve teenagers, though there are some older people listed in there too, some faculty/staff, older people at college. Looking at it closer there is a large range of ages. The vast majority are 0, 1, or 2 victim shootings. I would guess gang-type crime to be responsible for a decent number of the small casualty ones.

Interesting looking at it, between 2000-2009 there were only 4 or 5 "bad ones" where a lot of people were killed/hurt. We're at about 7 so far between 2010-2019. Doesn't include the Aurora or Vegas or Pulse as those are not school-related.

I did some quick looking into some of the 'worst' ones and they're almost all somehow related to mental health issues.
 

G.I.*EDDIE

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#67
... but like I said, sometime soon it's going to reach the tipping point when a ton of people won't even care what laws get passed as long as it purports to stop the school shootings.
Allllllllll part of the plan. :tinfoil:

Like I said before, the problem is societal. School shootings weren't an issue what, even 20 years ago? Back to the 1950's, completely non-existent? The societal issue can't and won't be fixed. They like to say we're progressing because we're becoming (forced) more accepting of immorality, but in reality, morally, we are very much regressing.

This isn't going to get better. It's going to only get worse, much worse. And that's exactly what the left wants, so that, like you said, the public gets behind disarming us.

If proof came out that these shootings were encouraged, or worse, staged by "they", I wouldn't be even the teensiest tiniest bit surprised.
 

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#68
It truly has more to do with our deteriorating culture and (prescribed) drugs than the guns. We've tried to replace stable, moral, nuclear families as the ideal with "be whatever you want" and have tried to treat the predictable depression brought on by it with often unpredictable medications/chemicals. Add media glorification of "if I can't be famous, I'll be infamous!" and you end up where we are. It's not going to get better. It's a symptom more than an outcome really.
 

G.I.*EDDIE

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#69
💥BOOM! 💥⤴ That!

Another thing that I think adds to the instability of these kids is the "everyone gets a trophy", "everyone is a special snowflake", "no best friends because we don't want anyone's feelings hurt" ideals. A lot these kids can't handle any kind of pressure because they've actually been raised with kid gloves. Like they were faberge eggs. Some girl dumps them or chooses another guy or even the simplest of thing doesn't go their way, plus any kind of (prescribed) mind altering drugs they are on and they snap like a twig. Making things worse is that they become celebrities.

Again, alllllllll part of the plan.
 
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#70
Not sure I'm ready to go full :tinfoil:, but no crisis left unexploited for sure...

The powers that be will do anything they believe they can get away with to achieve their goals.
 
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#71
All of that is probably true.

I've spend the morning going through that school shootings list (wow, uplifting times there).

1700's-1900 (41 deaths, 34 injured) - Mostly injuries. Some deaths, but not many. Seems like they're all related to either fights between people, or accidents. Decent amount of 'retaliation' shootings to punishments handed out by schools. I would guess numbers here are not going to be super accurate, but with the numbers we have its the lowest amount, for the longest stretch of time.

1900-1950's (63 killed, 35 injured) - More of the same really. Disputes, accidents, revenge killings. Most are low death count/low victim count. Young kids typically have access to guns, but are not 'shooting up their class' with them. To be fair, the types of guns COULD be a factor.

1960's (42 killed, 65 injured) - Things start to heat up. The University of Texas Massacre (17 dead, 31 wounded), some civil rights unrest, but most were still 1 or 2 victim incidents.

1970's (36 killed, 65 injured) - Vietnam protests, crime, revenge stuff, nothing jumps out though.

1980's (51 killed, 162 injured) - That's a bit of a jump. We start to see people going into classes with the purpose of killing/hurting people. Not just mad that they got in trouble, or a spurned lover. 74 of the wounded were from 1 hostage crisis (by people in their 40s). There are still one-offs, but you can see the seeds being sown for 'school shootings' becoming a thing.

1990's (91 killed, 152 injured) - Obviously the big one is Columbine, with 15 dead, but there were perhaps 5 or 6 other "typical school shootings" that took place in the 90s before Columbine. I say typical, when I mean the shooters tend to kill someone at home, then plan their attack on the school, arrive and then methodically attack people. The majority of shootings even in the 90s are the "one-off" type, where someone brings a gun to school to confront someone, not to kill randomly.

2000's (107 killed, 137 injured) - A *6* year old brought a gun to school and killed a classmate. WHAT. The Virginia Tech shooting was the worst, with 33 dead and 23 wounded. I counted probably 6 ot 7 "typical" school shootings, mixed in with a bunch of one-offs. Decent amount of 'school shootings' that involve older (40's, 50's, 60's, 70's) people who are either faculty or adult students, these don't seem to be in the same vein as 'typical' kid shootings, they're usually rage or revenge based like any other violent adult crime.

2010's (161 killed, 243 wounded) - Good lord. We're not even done with the 2010's and we're on track to close to double the 2000s. Maybe triple the 1990s. Quadruple the 1980s. I'd say somewhere in the range of 13 or 14 of the shootings would be classic "school shootings". There are still a number of one-offs, or incidents where the person kills one person and then themselves.

So yeah, productive morning, early afternoon. What can we take away from that? The AR-15 has been around for 55 years. It's been used in various killings throughout the years, but its by no means the only rifle involved. The AK-47 (or Chinese replicas) were actually used in a bunch of killings before it was banned. The AR-15 has been extra popular this decade though (Newtown, Aurora, San Bernadino, Roseburg, Parkland, etc).

The numbers keep growing, even though gun laws have either stayed the same or gotten somewhat stricter over the years. Guns have not really gotten deadlier (except hollow point ammo I suppose, other fancy types), not gotten ridiculously easier to obtain (prices are pretty level, background checks, etc).

The issue seems to be the uptick in people (usually with mental problems) who plan out going into a school with a gun and indiscriminately killing people. If we are trying to lessen school shooting (and not shootings in general), these are the people, or group of people who need to be under intense scrutiny.

No matter how you look at it though, looking at those numbers shouldn't be an "oh well, kids these days, amirite??" That is a lot of kids being killed for going to damn school. Regardless of politics we should be thinking of ways to stop that from happening, and making sure things are implemented. Tossing out conspiracy theories is cool and all, but not really helpful.

From reading through a TONNNNNN of these, it seems like the best best would be:

Restrict gun purchases till 21 or 25 (like Eddie suggested). Same goes for handguns or rifles. Handguns are used in the vast majority of gun crime, YET in school shootings rifles are typically preferred (or used in conjunction with handguns). Either way, both need to be kept out of the hands of kids. This would likely help with your late high school/college-level shooters who end up buying their own guns.

Something to incentivize legal gun owners to restrict access to their guns by minors. I would assume there are already laws on the books, and I can't imagine most of the parents or family members would have wanted the kids to get access to the guns (since they usually kill the family members first!). What/how do you come up with an effective way to keep the kids from getting access? Restrict gun ownership to people without kids? Not really a good solution. Bigger fines/jail time? I guess, but if their kid just shot up a school and likely killed themselves.. not really going to matter much. Gun safes mandatory? I think locks already are.. but people don't follow the rules. This is needed to help with the Middle School/High School shooters who use family guns to commit the crimes.

Intense mental health screenings. How do you flag stuff, especially when minors records are sealed? We also don't want to punish people for past mistakes maybe years in the past. Perhaps you need to get a mental health waiver every 2 years or something? It would be like a handgun permit, but to assess your mental state. Obvious flaws are.. cost.. how much of a barrier to entry is it? How effective would it be? A therapist gets an hour with you and makes 1 determination? It could end up like medical marijuana.. you have docs who just rubber stamp "Yep you're sane" without really caring. Some sort of responsibility on their end? I dunno, seems unfair as well. Could be a really good liar. You could also have 'activist' therapists who say no to everyone because guns are evil. I would imagine it should settle itself down, and while not being 100% would hopefully catch some people, and deter others who don't want to jump through hoops.

The link between mass shootings and mental health issues.. SSRIs.. etc.. really needs to be looked at.

Background checks. Should be mandatory for every weapon purchase, everywhere, all the time. Frankly there is no reason not to.

What else? Social media monitoring should be on here, but I don't think it's reasonable or realistic. Some sort of mandatory arbitration if someone tries to flag you for something. Protecting law-abiding gun owners rights should be important as well.
 
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G.I.*EDDIE

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#72
That was a great write up, bud. Well done on the research. Yeah, I actually read it despite :words:. 😁

Me and my dad have noticed a trend. It tends to be something that connects a lot of the insanity we see today...the 1960's. A lot of what was implemented and happened then seems to be the cause of the escalating problems afterwards. So I find it interesting that gun violence also started heating up in the 60's.

This might sound tinfoily, but I think that communist influence really started to take hold in America after WWII. In our government, academia, media and Hollywood. I've read that societal influence takes about 15 years to take hold. Fifteen years after WWII just so happens to land us in the 60's. 🤔

As I've said, the age restriction is the only thing that I can get behind. Everything else can be abused by someone with a political bend. And I honestly think 25 is pretty extreme. But I think that it's the only thing that can skip right over and nip this societal issue in the bud.

Background checks, already a thing everywhere, right? Tighter? Sure, but in what regard? Again, what constitutes "mental illness"? A lot of potential for abuse there. Very legitimate concerns I'd say. Maybe a mental issue/police being called on you/arrest points system? Situation dependent? But then who's the judge? We're back to political bends.

The big problem is trust among law abiding gun owners for the lawmakers. We don't trust the government, especially knowing how desperate one side is to disarm us. If we give them an inch, will they take a mile? Everyone is compassionate, but they're also not stupid.
 
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#74
The data also doesn't include the plots that were thwarted before they began, either by police/FBI or parents or whatnot. I am sure a bunch of those were stopped before they carried out the attacks, so the number of potential typical school shooters could be larger. Since they're actively seeming to plan things, as opposed to running home and getting a gun and coming back, the odds for them to be foiled mid-plan are thankfully a lot higher.

That aside aside.. Obviously culture and parenting and media and all that have to have some impact on these numbers. How much though? Even with a huge decade-to-decade increase, it's a tiny % of overall 'young people' who are committing these types of crimes. If it was purely a cultural or media-driven thing, I would expect more kids to being jumping in, "becoming famous", etc. The SSRI/medication angle is kind of the same.. I am sure there are a TON of kids/young people on these drugs, but only a handful are committing these types of crimes.

We can't legislate better parenting (unfortunately), the media isn't getting any better, and no one wants to seem to stop the over-medicating of society, so what do we do? Try to restrict their access to guns, I guess.

As always though, you have the two polar opposite sides who are spinning numbers and statistics for whatever suits them best.

Another aside.. Something else that always befuddles me..

Pro-gun people are usually the ones with the "Blue Lives Matter"/Pro Military statements and such, and yet are also the same ones who are afraid the government is going to come snatch your guns. Which is it? Are we proud of the Military & Police or afraid of them? It's a weird dichotomy. We tell Black people the cops are just doing their jobs, don't be sketchy and you won't die, and then we're morbidly afraid of them coming for our stuff?
 

G.I.*EDDIE

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#76
Pro-gun people are usually the ones with the "Blue Lives Matter"/Pro Military statements and such, and yet are also the same ones who are afraid the government is going to come snatch your guns. Which is it? Are we proud of the Military & Police or afraid of them? It's a weird dichotomy. We tell Black people the cops are just doing their jobs, don't be sketchy and you won't die, and then we're morbidly afraid of them coming for our stuff?
I'm not concerned about cops or military, in fact if came down to having to take up arms against the government, I think that a lot of them would take the civilian side. No, the people I don't trust are the policy lawmakers. The guys and gals in suits that would actually be able to implement the grabbing.
 
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