Rucksacks and Military Equipment Castings

[Apache26]

Gentlemen,

I'm in the process of talking to a 3D modeler about some pet projects I've always wanted to complete. As a soldier, history major and scale modeler, I tend to be more of a stickler for details and accuracy in personal equipment that is often lacking in mass produced toys. What I feel that enthusiasts like us are after is usually a model that we can pose. This drives us to increasingly higher expectations for articulation and detail. I've long had the desire to be a part of the crossover of 1:18 from children's toy lines to serious, detailed collectibles.

So with that in mind, I decided to start small. I own a large collection of Vietnam to modern era equipment that I can have modeled accurately. My personal favorite has always been Vietnam, and it always drove me nuts how shoddily the equipment of that era has been represented.

I plan on creating prototypes for two of the major types of Vietnam rucksacks. The first is the Lightweight (LW) Rucksack with frame. The second is the Tropical Rucksack mounted on a LW frame (as was common). I can throw up a variety of equipment variations and would like input on what would sell the best.

For example:

- LW Rucksack with PRC-25, extra canteens, poncho, an extra battery and smoke grenades
- Tropical Rucksack with 5-Quart canteen, extra canteens, entrenching tool and ammo can
- LW or Tropical rucksack with an AN/PVS-2 starlight scope, poncho, claymore bag, smoke grenades and ammo can

The possibilities are endless. The agreement I have with the modeler is to pay for a baseline rucksack and then we can model additional attachments for future prototypes as desired at a minimal cost for new designs.

I KNOW, HOWEVER, THAT VIETNAM IS A BIT OF A NICHE ITEM THAT MAY ONLY FIND BUYERS AMONG A HANDFUL...

I can also have a variety of gear modeled for customizing your figures. I have GI issue MOLLE assault packs and the standard MOLLE ruck. I also have medium and large ALICE packs. I can have claymore bags and other accessories modeled accurately. My idea at this point is to focus on packs and rucks since those are generally not well, or accurately represented. I can't afford to nickel and dime away at every existing 5.56 mm MOLLE/PALS pouch in existence right now.

What I need is an idea of what will sell, and some commitment on your part to spend your Christmas cash. It is my intent to keep this stuff cheap, but I don't have any price points yet.

I will not, as of yet, get into vests and plate carriers. I'm starting small with more "boutique" items to fill in things that toy companies ignore or are ignorant of or simply do a very poor job of molding. My hope is to build on these designs for much more ambitious future projects.

Please send me your input soon so I can get the ball rolling, determine an initial investment and set prices. I'd appreciate all input by 05 January so I can start making decisions. I'll announce my decisions by 06 January and hopefully take orders by then.

 

[darthdre758]

I'd be down for some Vietnam era items to be made available. I'm trying to expand my horizons on customs so this might be right up my alley.

As for more modern things, a blank LBV would be the best bet. Something similar to what Jesse had but obviously easier to get.

 

[K-Tiger]

God yes, a PRC-25 on frame w/antenna pouch is definitely needed.

 

[Apache26]

God yes, a PRC-25 on frame w/antenna pouch is definitely needed.

Properly scaled at that...I can do the "light to fight" radio on the frame with a handful of smoke grenades, or I can properly pack the "heavy to hump" radio and pack combination.

 

[K-Tiger]

When I was thinking of doing a '70s Dial Tone I was leaning to heavy, but I'd take either option. Light is probably better for an "action" figure. While I'm thinking of it, are you intending to have a separate handset for the PRC?

 

[Apache26]

When I was thinking of doing a '70s Dial Tone I was leaning to heavy, but I'd take either option. Light is probably better for an "action" figure. While I'm thinking of it, are you intending to have a separate handset for the PRC?

That is a good question. I have both correct handsets, but I haven't entirely determined how to do the cord since it's easy to screw that up and make it way out of scale. Likewise, I haven't decided yet on how to do the shoulder straps since I don't think they can be printed.

 

[K-Tiger]

Build-A-Rama used elastic similarly to PTE when they did a PRC. Not a fan, but it works. As for the cord, I'd leave that to the end user.

 

[K-Tiger]

Just gonna put this here:

Vietnam-Airsoft.com

 

[darthdre758]

That's pretty awesome KT. About what year did the M16 become fairly standard?

 

[K-Tiger]

'67 or so.

 

[Apache26]

In order to assist in the process, I'll be posting photos of the rucks I have set up. Hopefully this will give everyone a better idea of what I'm trying to accomplish.

I recognize the photos from the Lyles book.

 

[Apache26]

Here are example photos from my collection of what I'm planning on casting. Of course, there can be significant variations on the accessories based on interest.

By popular demand the PRC-25 on the frame:

Lightweight Rucksack w/ Claymore Bag:

Late war tropical rucksack on a LW frame w/ M-72A1 LAW:

And now the MOLLE Assault Pack:

All of these can be modeled and printed, but I need to know which are worth the initial investment. If the interest is present, I'll come up with a price point for a single pack and for a set.

 

[K-Tiger]

Would definitely be interested in the Vietnam options. Chime in, folks!

 

[Apache26]

K-Tiger, do you sleep?

Based on the limited feedback I received on here and SSHQ, I'll be going with the radio and frame combination and the lightweight rucksack. I'll post photos of the 3D models when they become available.

The actual models may vary somewhat from the photos I posted. Rest assured that we've worked out a way to add and remove accessories with minimal cost by not having to model a new rucksack every time I add or remove something.

Once I get the 3D models in hand and work out the best way to do shoulder straps for 1:18 figures, I'll be able to post prices.

 

[Meddatron]

Rest assured that we've worked out a way to add and remove accessories with minimal cost by not having to model a new rucksack every time I add or remove something.

Do you mean modular after it is done, or modular for your reproduction method?

 

[Apache26]

For the reproduction method.

Rather than paying the modeler to develop a new rucksack model each time I want to add or remove a piece of gear, he'll model the whole rucksack first with the attachments as separate entities. Therefore, he can charge me a small flat rate to remove or add something.

I like the idea of being able to modularize the actual packs, but usually that seems to be done with pegs (like the old 21st Century web gear items) and those tend to fall out during posing.

 

[Apache26]

From my hired modeler...

LW Rucksack frame.

 

[saltymarine]

Somehow I missed this thread, but I would be interested in accurate ammo cans and gas cans, Ya there out there but are crapy at best, I'd personally buy 50 gas cans, and 20 each of any ammo cans, 5.56, 7.62, .50. Water bottles or casses of water bottles, MRE boxes, sleeping bags, anvil type shipping cases, I'm a vehicle moder obviously so these are seriously lacking on pretty much every custom out there.

 

[K-Tiger]

Someone's never see Unimax's gerry cans and MRE cases.

 

[Apache26]

Somehow I missed this thread, but I would be interested in accurate ammo cans and gas cans, Ya there out there but are crapy at best, I'd personally buy 50 gas cans, and 20 each of any ammo cans, 5.56, 7.62, .50. Water bottles or casses of water bottles, MRE boxes, sleeping bags, anvil type shipping cases, I'm a vehicle moder obviously so these are seriously lacking on pretty much every custom out there.

That stuff is too easy. To be honest, there's no secret to what I'm doing but the only difference I can see is that I'm willing to put my own money up to see if it works. That, and I have a huge collection from which to make precise references. I won't accept a product that I wouldn't be proud to use or submit for competition.

I scratch built C-Ration cases out of cardstock for my M-113 and M-48. MRE's, LRP's or First Strike Rations would be easy to do in plastic or cardstock. I agree, most ammo cans I see are inconsistent and lack crisp detail. If I get enough interest in the rucks, the sky's the limit on getting things modeled.

 

[saltymarine]

Someone's never see Unimax's gerry cans and MRE cases.

Those are water cans, MRE boxes are inaccurate, I have them, but fuel cans have 3 handles on top, not one.

 

[Apache26]

I can now send this for 3D printing through Shapeways! The modeler will now work on the rucksacks. I'll get the prototypes as soon as I can and will keep everyone updated on the progress.

 

[Meddatron]

Right on!! Look great!

 

[TIE_FighterTK069]

Can't wait to see how these turn out! Cheers for taking on this project, man.

 

[Apache26]

Thank you very much. There will be some trial and error involved in this. I had to send the modeler dimensions to ensure that the model is proportionally correct and will print out in scale. I expect to send the model to Shapeways first thing next week for prototypes. When they come in, I'll send photos of the prototypes. He's also working on modeling the rucksacks as we speak.

 

[K-Tiger]

Looks great. I'll be cutting off/"losing" the LS-166, though if I ever get around to getting a M151 I may want to have it around.

 

[Apache26]

I put the speaker on there because they were used in that configuration and I hoped that it would provide the radio with something unique - and therefore more attractive to potential buyers. You're not going to get a MANPACK from Build-a-Rama or Hasbro with a squawk box! I'm wondering if I should remove it entirely now. It's inclusion elicited some pushback from a Vietnam Vet on SSHQ.

 

[K-Tiger]

I can't find any data on how common it's actual use was, but it looks unwieldy up there, even though it is the correct placement.

Were never gonna get a proper MANPAC radio from Hasbro, end of.

 

[Apache26]

It's actually pretty well secured on there. I included these photos in my SSHQ post defending my decision.

 

[Meddatron]

I put the speaker on there because they were used in that configuration and I hoped that it would provide the radio with something unique - and therefore more attractive to potential buyers. You're not going to get a MANPACK from Build-a-Rama or Hasbro with a squawk box! I'm wondering if I should remove it entirely now. It's inclusion elicited some pushback from a Vietnam Vet on SSHQ.

I agree.

 

[K-Tiger]

You can find photo evidence for just about any gear combo ever mentioned, it doesn't make it the norm. Like I said, it doesn't matter, if the offensive piece is on the final product I'll just cut it off.


Enough about that, it occurs to me we really need an M3/M5 "unit one" bag

 

[Apache26]

KT, yes an M-3 aid bag would be easy to do...

First prototype photo of the radio and frame:

There's a reason that it's called a prototype. We're already working on strengthening the frame and seeing if the shoulder straps are going to be viable. Right now, they are too brittle but with a little strength and a different plastic they may work.

I wanted to post this to show everyone that we're moving forward. My modeler is in the process of making the 3D models of the rucksacks as well.

 

[TIE_FighterTK069]

Damn, that is some nice detail. Seems the straps would be a bitch to pull off in a cast item, though... But then again I have zero experience casting stuff.

 

[Apache26]

Thanks TIE Fighter! Due to durability concerns, I am probably not going to do resin casts for the packs that are to be used with action figures. The reason is that resin, while great for highly detailed static models, is far too brittle for something that will be used as an accessory. In all likelihood, I'll have to 3D print the 1:18 items. For the 1:18 scale items, I've had a number of questions on how we'll do the shoulder straps. My hope is that we can print the rucksack and the straps with a durable plastic that will keep me from having to use elastic bands or thick vinyl for shoulder straps. We may not succeed in getting detailed shoulder straps that can be taken on and off figures, but that's why we're printing up the prototypes.

 

[Meddatron]

That's a great start. Prototypes look decent. Could you do Eyelets (or pegs) on the pack for the straps and have the strap made separate with a connector on it like the PTE vest use or holes to attach the strap to pegs on packs? You could use different materials for the two of them. One hard, one flimsy. Just a thought.

 

[Apache26]

An update in case anyone thought this was dead...

Shapeways can be a pain in the ass. One would think that for the prices paid for a prototype and with what should be the most sophisticated technology, they would find a way to get things done. We're having issues getting items printed that they tell me aren't printable. So my modeler goes back to the drawing board to reinforce places on the model that Shapeways doesn't like. I have two more prototypes on order and we're working on the actual rucksacks as we speak. This is taking time. I don't want to print anything that I wouldn't personally want to use, so my modeler has to deal with me nitpicking the details on shape and proportion.

But it is not dead! Just no sexy updates right now.

 

[Apache26]

Here is the 3D image of the rucksack with canteens and bandoleers. Last week I received newly printed prototypes of the radio pack. We're still working on getting the optimal thickness for the ruck frame so that it will withstand the printing process and ship without breaking. This is the primary obstacle we now face to getting these produced.

 

[Apache26]

Wow...it makes me sad to see this post buried. But fear not, in spite of some obstacles my project hasn't died. We now have successful prototypes from shapeways!

It took some time to get the thickness of the frame correct. 3D models look cool as jpeg's, but they don't always print out the way the picture looks.

Here are the prototypes:

Lightweight Rucksack with bandoleer and canteens:

Radios...the semi-transparent radio is the ultra high detail plastic.

The rucksack is in 1:16 scale and after doing some comparisons between modern Joes and the 21st Century figures, I'll definitely stick with 1:18. It's my hope to be able to put the 1:16 scale models up for sale for 120mm scale model fans. Nonetheless, it won't be hard to downscale the pack to 1:18.

The only problem as you can see are the shoulder straps. My instructions to my modeler now are to remove them entirely and I'll try and figure out something else.

At least now I have a printable product that we know will work! My modeler is assiduously working on more models of different variations of packs.

 

[G.I.*EDDIE]

Gosh dang do those look good! That's pretty freaking amazing for a 3D prints.

 

[K-Tiger]

Indeed ^^^