The More You Know: Casting, and supporting our local CastOrs!

[XOC2008]

The recent hullabaloo in another thread prompted me to post this. I'm not going to throw out accusations, blame anyone for anything -- I'm just going to state my point of view on this.

It's simply bad form to purchase casts from a store, recast them, and sell them at a profit. We've seen it with an ebay store that vanished quite swiftly after many people pointed out they were reselling someone else's stuff at a major markup. Even though the original seller, when informed, didn't care because the guy was selling 2 and 3 dollar guns for 20 bucks, it's still bad form.

This is about supporting our fellow CastOrs as much as it is about having some mutual respect. Now, if it's straight Hasbro product that you've purchased from a store, and are reselling it for profit, that's on you because if Hasbro drops the hammer, you're going to get caught in the crossfire.

However, modified (30% or more change from original, I believe), and original sculpts are the property of that sculptor, castor, and/or store. It shows a complete and utter lack of respect for the community, and the person, to resell someone else's items for profit. Frankly, the only reason some castors don't go after people who do this is because it's simply not worth the amount of money to spend to get them to cease and desist. So instead, let's just have some common courtesy, and NOT steal from those who are supporting the scale and community by providing items for us.

 

[NSA]

┬─┬ノ(ಠ_ಠノ)


(╯°□°）╯︵ â”»â”￾â”»

 

[MAJOR BLOOD]

 

[K-Tiger]

CastOr X is selling CastOrs A's & B's original stuff?


*awaits Fogger's thrashing for that fucked-up ass grammar*

 

[starwarsgeek]

Sorry to cause a hullabaloo (is there a site reward for that?).

It's sad that this even has to be mentioned. But I guess it's true what they say...

"Common sense ain't so common"

 

[XOC2008]

Sorry to cause a hullabaloo (is there a site reward for that?).

It's sad that this even has to be mentioned. But I guess it's true what they say...

"Common sense ain't so common"

I guess it's just something that had to be said. As for causing the hullabaloo, I'm sure we can find a troublemaker award.

 

[MAJOR BLOOD]

And for any of us to say something is in bad taste is pretty bad.

 

[G.I.*EDDIE]

What, did I miss?

 

[Vindicare86]

What, did I miss?

Suggested reading to catch up: http://www.fighting118th.com/forum/...ndmade-tactical-vest-3-75-action-figures.html

 

[G.I.*EDDIE]

Where's KTs "HT. We know drama" pic? :trollface:

 

[MAJOR BLOOD]

Where's KTs "HT. We know drama" pic? :trollface:

He is busy suiting up so we do not read about him in the ebola thread.

 

[Vortious]

We really shouldn't be copying each others stuff. I know that I accidentally copied a sword that was from Slayer, but before Angel Forge had it up, and at the time I copied the sword I really wasn't sure of the source, and had done due diligence to try to find where it originated from. Even so once I found out where it was from it was too late as it was part of a kit, but I asked Dave for permission, and he said to just credit AF with the sword in the description since it was theirs at that point. However since they had the sword by itself I won't sell it by itself in my store, and will only sell it as part of the War god kits. I've tried to be even more vigilant against copying other casters parts since.

 

[Joerhyno]

Don't get me wrong, I've bought plenty of cast items from plenty of casters and love that they're out there, as sometimes I can't afford a $40-$80 exclusive club figure, but don't mind paying $4ish for a cast copy of the head.

BUT... being in the casting business, where most of the stuff is other companies stuff that's reproduced.. isn't it a bit weird to call someone out for doing the same thing that you're doing?

I know, I know.. you paid so-and-so for them to sculpt a special head of a certain character that you can't find in that scale, or you took another companies 1:1 scale head and you shrunk it down using magic and made it Lego sized, and you cast copies of it... but again.. those companies you "stole" the head from originally, paid someone to do similar work, and did their own magic to bring certain characters to plastic life.. and you did the same thing to them.. in a way, isn't it the same, and shouldn't it kind be expected to happen?

That being said, I don't agree with it.. the selling of someone's cast stuff. I just always thought that if you made copies of someone's copies and we're not that big of a group of fellows, so those customs with cast head pictures get around pretty easy.. that you'd be smart enough not to actually say publically that you're copying said items and offering them up for sale, lol.. but what do I know.

 

[Obi-Shinobi]

^^^

Uh... no. If I take factory parts and modify/sculpt/MAKE MORE THAN A 30% CHANGE... it is now MY proprietary design/part. It's also a very special, ONE-OFF part, unlike copies of Hasbro's mass produced stuff which can still be obtained with the right amount of money (store, ebay, etc.) People don't want to spend $10+++ for a Hasbro figure just for the head, which is why we have people casting those heads. That's understandable in my book. Not saying it's 100% right, or legal... but understandable.

Unique and special one-off parts made by the community members SHOULD be handled differently. Hasbro's designers/sculptors have been paid (well, I'm sure) for their part(s). I don't get a big Hasbro check for anything I make, which evidently a lot of people like/want/buy. So to take my custom part and make more money on it by copying it, takes any amount of money away from me. Remember... I'm not getting paid big bucks to start with to create the part from get-go, unlike Hasbro's people. They are not hurting for money, I can assure you. And Hasbro itself still sells tons of their product everyday, so no hurt going on there either.

You can say "calling the kettle black" all you want, but there's a huge difference between the two sides.

 

[Joerhyno]

So, let me ask, what's your take on when the Bossfight and Marauder figures start coming out.. cast away.. or not?

 

[the_Archivist]

So, let me ask, what's your take on when the Bossfight and Marauder figures start coming out.. cast away.. or not?

I personally would be very against casting/buying cast parts right away. Once they have moved on to different lines though then I think it would be okay to cast their parts.

Once the only way to get those parts are on the secondary market I would much rather procure them from a caster than get the parts I want from someone on e-bay that just bought the figure to try and flip it for more later on.

The same could be said about Chinese E-bayers as well. Most of those are certainly not authorized by the company that produced or distributed the figures.

However, if a company makes it too difficult to acquire a certain figure then I will definitely seek out a 3rd party to acquire it. Even the VHacks or Marauder figures.

 

[Obi-Shinobi]

So, let me ask, what's your take on when the Bossfight and Marauder figures start coming out.. cast away.. or not?

I'm neither for it or against it, really - from any source. I'm not in the casting business, so what I think doesn't truly matter. I only referenced the differences between large scale production parts and the little guy in his garage, who might make a little scratch every month selling stuff.

BFS and MGR? You know it's going to happen, of course. But honestly, imo, both are small upstarts... so for me... I wouldn't go all out casting their stuff and trying to make money on it (ebay, store, whatever). I see nothing wrong if someone casts those parts for personal use, but that's really with anything. And if you want to give a few pieces to friends, so be it. Again, same thing applies to Hasbro's or even any of my custom parts.

Nothing wrong with casting/copying stuff... it's what you do with it afterwards that can either hurt the artist(s), or be nothing but an alternate source for parts... in what we could all agree, doesn't add up to anything significant to the big companies (they're not losing any money). Yes, Hasbro could make more money if we bought more figures for the heads. Let's face reality though... as long as Hasbro makes their forecasted sales - they're fine. The little guy (me for example) who does a little sculpt work or heavily mods a part, isn't making squat on said items.

 

[Vortious]

Obi-Shinobi has it right. Yes we copy the official parts mostly those that are made as exclusives, or have been retired however this doesn't hurt the big manufacturers. It hurts the scalpers some. It doesn't hurt them enough to make them stop scalping though. So as long as they keep doing what they do then the major manufacturers who's items they scalp will keep getting the scalpers money, and we know that there's always someone out there willing to pay through the nose for that item they just have to have.

I cast items mainly once they aren't widely available, or the line has been discontinued, or people are looking for items in varying colors that the major manufactures aren't going to worry about trying to make for the customers.

As far as the copying of cast parts by other casters especially when there has been money exchanged between caster, and sculptor, or a deal has been reached for royalty payments between the caster, and sculptor (such as the case between myself, and Thorodinson) then the honor among thieves rules go into effect. Now if someone sculpted something, and sent it to one caster for royalties, and then turned around, and did the same with another caster then that is the prerogative of the sculptor.

Now as for the BFS/MGR figures I agree with the Archivist. Once the only way to get the figures is through scalpers then I'd say that the casters should go ahead, but until then no. Those guys are one step above us, and where most of the casters would like to be at some point so their success kind of shows the way for our own. Hasbro, and Mattel started too long ago for most of us to have watched, and learned from their growth. Sure most of it can be researched, but I'm sure that there are allot things that the However these newer toy companies that are popping up are excellent examples that those of us who are casting can, and should be learning from so that IF we aspire to reach above the level of custom parts casting, and into the level of mass market toy making we can watch, and learn from their mistakes, and successes to fuel our own successes.

 

[Jrsmi6]

This is why I don't sell my casts. I don't know where most of them originated and who's toes I may be stepping on so I just make copies for myself just in case I screw up and I need a do over I will trade them off or give them away sometimes , but never sell.

 

[Jedi_Master_Ben]

Just to chime in here, as an original sculptor and a co-owner of one of the past casting companies, I retained the rights to all pieces I had sculpted in the past and present. I have gone after casters that got a hold of one or more of my sculpts and tried to produce them without my consent. Just about all of them quickly stopped.

I too, hope to take my line to the same level as BFS and MTF are doing now. I enjoy this scale of toys and want continue to support it with fresh ideas and fantastic new sculpts. With that said, I will continue to monitor and protect my work out there on the web.

 

[Stocos28]

I've had to deal with this issue on a few occasions... I ran my own store and almost all of the parts/casts there in were my original sculpts or heads that I heavily modded. A friend of mine and a few customers told me that other dudes had recasted and sold some of my stuff on the DL and I found one dude in Turkey of all places trying to sell horribly done copies of my sculpted torsos. He stopped once I contacted him about it. I certainly understand casting for custom figures that your going to make but its just bad form to straight up cast someone else in our community's work to profit on their talent with out first reaching an agreement with them and getting their permission. I sold my older sculpts to Vortious so I won't sell them anymore. As far as I'm concerned he owns them. But I have a few newer sculpts that I'll be doing limited runs of and if someone recasts them and sells them, yeah, I'll be pissed. I think it would be wrong to cast and sell the Bossfight stuff as well, unless your using it as a buck and sculpting a considerate amount on it/ modding it greatly.

 

[WildBill]

Same thing happens in the sticker world. I had an inquiry about which of our sticker sets were custom and which were direct copies. I had to explain that all our sets are sourced from original material and then completely redrawn for clarity since most original stuff is not very sharp...in the end I'm sure they just copied our scans. It's taken a long time to put our inventory together.
The only thing that saves us is our very expensive printing system which can't be replicated cheaply.

Out of curiosity, what does %30 modified mean? Custom painting a cast head would be modifying it?

 

[Vortious]

Same thing happens in the sticker world. I had an inquiry about which of our sticker sets were custom and which were direct copies. I had to explain that all our sets are sourced from original material and then completely redrawn for clarity since most original stuff is not very sharp...in the end I'm sure they just copied our scans. It's taken a long time to put our inventory together.
The only thing that saves us is our very expensive printing system which can't be replicated cheaply.

Out of curiosity, what does %30 modified mean? Custom painting a cast head would be modifying it?

The 30% change is a change in the actual sculpt. Not just repainting it. HOWEVER if you paint a beard on a head like I did on the RoC Ripcord, and then I made a mold of that for the MC 82 head in my store there is then a VERY thin beard texture added. So once you've made a mold of the modded head you're making a mold of a head w/ approximately a 30% change. Most changes are more drastic though. Most of the time a particular head is chosen for it's slight resemblance to some one, and then modded to make that head look more like the actor, or a specific character that actor portrayed in a specific movie.

 

[Blue_Knight]

OK, I have never posted here before and have been a lurking member for a while to admire some of the customs that are here and there. I am looking for a real good reputable casting site for casted tactical vest for joe figures. I ordered some from Broken Arrow, and have yet to receive my order and was curious if the site isn't really in business any longer.

 

[MAJOR BLOOD]

How long ago did you order?

 

[Meddatron]

BA takes months to years to get orders. I recommend contacting StarWarsGeek and/or vortious. Both are active members here.

Out of curiosity, same Blue Knight from Bantha Skull?

 

[MAJOR BLOOD]

If you are within pay pals time to request a refund I would do so. Just my $.02

 

[Blue_Knight]

How long ago did you order?

It's been well over six weeks....so.....Yeah....darn.

BA takes months to years to get orders. I recommend contacting StarWarsGeek and/or vortious. Both are active members here.

Out of curiosity, same Blue Knight from Bantha Skull?

Thanks Med. and yeah, it's me.....BK from the Bantha Skul

If you are within pay pals time to request a refund I would do so. Just my $.02

Yeah, it is that time. Thanks

 

[Topside]

Is anybody doing a Willem Dafoe head cast? I want to make a John Clark/ Clear and Present Danger custom.

 

[Meddatron]

It's been well over six weeks....so.....Yeah....darn.



Thanks Med. and yeah, it's me.....BK from the Bantha Skul



Yeah, it is that time. Thanks

Right on BK. Good to see you here bro! Been a long time. Hope all is well. SWG screen name is/was Jokabofe at Bantha Skull so you may remember him. I vouch for him and Vortious if you go that route.

 

[Jrsmi6]

Right on BK. Good to see you here bro! Been a long time. Hope all is well. SWG screen name is/was Jokabofe at Bantha Skull so you may remember him. I vouch for him and Vortious if you go that route.

I have bought parts from several castOrs and I always get the best service from SWG and Angel Forge. I have only bought from Vortious once with no problems so I can't say more about him than that. I'll give Raginspoon some credit as well , but his parts are very character specific to GI Joe figuresand not for other continuities.

 

[Meddatron]

Yeah, Angel Forge is awesome too. I just don't know if they do straight recasts still.

 

[Blue_Knight]

Right on BK. Good to see you here bro! Been a long time. Hope all is well. SWG screen name is/was Jokabofe at Bantha Skull so you may remember him. I vouch for him and Vortious if you go that route.

Good seeing you also. Bantha Skull has lost a lot of people over the while. I don't know where everyone is going. Anyway, I am still there as is Duke, Dre, LB and several others.

 

[Meddatron]

That's what I had heard. I left for reasons I will not say but at the same time Dre introduced me here so I found a new home. I had also mostly stopped collecting Star Wars when the Clone Wars toys took over. I also heard Rhuad left. Besides Dre he was the guy I spoke with the most. Dre frequents here daily and Greg does sometimes as well. I got to meet Greg at our last con here. Met Dre in person for the first time 2 cons ago. Every now and than Julian stops by also. I hope you hang around and/or stop in from time to time.

 

[Vortious]

Yeah I gotta say that this is one of my 3 favorite sites that I stop in, and chat on at least 2, or 3 times a day. Good bunch of people, and laid back atmosphere. Can't get any better than that.

 

[Blue_Knight]

That's what I had heard. I left for reasons I will not say but at the same time Dre introduced me here so I found a new home. I had also mostly stopped collecting Star Wars when the Clone Wars toys took over. I also heard Rhuad left. Besides Dre he was the guy I spoke with the most. Dre frequents here daily and Greg does sometimes as well. I got to meet Greg at our last con here. Met Dre in person for the first time 2 cons ago. Every now and than Julian stops by also. I hope you hang around and/or stop in from time to time.

Yeah, I don't know what happened to Ruadh......he just up and disappeared. Julian is still around BS, and a few others. I still collect SW, but due to the 6inch line and the new Rebels, and all the other crap the big H is throwing out there.....I limit my purchases to just OT figs. I stated getting some Joe stuff. Just a few figs here and there to do pics with. So, when I have all I want, I will start posting some cool pics on here. I mostly log in here on the weekends to see what customs people have done. Some good stuff here.

 

[Blue_Knight]

Also, is Raginspoon a good site to get 1:18 scale gear from.

 

[Meddatron]

He has a good reputation from what I understand.

 

[fogger1138]

I've had several good transactions with Raginspoon.

 

[Blue_Knight]

OK, good deal. Thanks guys.