Tofujesse Castings: Announcements & Discussion
- Thread starter Tofujesse
- Start date
I can cast it...I'm gonna be changing up my whole request process so ill be posting in a few days but for you Eddie ill do it before I change it.
From my experience in following 3rd party Transformers discussion threads, these "intellectual property" discussions NEVER end well, and always end in a draw where everyone's tired from being pissed off at each other.
As for me, I don't give a fuck about Hasbro. I care more about their properties, which extends beyond their legal ownership, and if they're incapable of producing something, or in proper numbers to meet demand, then if someone else is willing to answer that demand, then so be it. Multiply that x1000 if we're talking customizing. As long as the parts are quality, I can do the legwork myself.
I'm with Mandingo Rex on this one... if Hasbro could meet the demand I have for certain items without having to drive all over to get them, or go to JoeCon and get fisted by Brian Savage and his group of scalpers, I'd need cast heads a lot less.
On the other hand, if I buy a cast head and I make copies of it for my own use, it's kind of like music downloading...the artist got paid for the copy I bought, but I wanted a CD for my car and I made a copy. If I pay someone else to make that CD for me, I'm still within my right as the owner of that individual piece. As long as I don't sell it I'm fine.
That's a wonky analogy, I know...who uses CD's anymore? Might as well make a goddamn mixtape.
-CC
How exactly does one estabish a "moral" precedent? Is it in the "Caster's Constitution?" Which amendment is that?
If anything, I think it just falls under "Don't be a dick."
My point is, there aren't any rules about any of this between customizers. It's all based on people being part of a community and establishing certain lines they prefer not be crossed, and people abiding by them because they feel that's best for everyone. Once you start laying down "rules" as if you're Moses come down from the mountain, you end up like Alyosha, who feels he's entitled to piss and moan at anyone who casts the same Hasbro-owned parts as he does.
Oh, I forgot, he has "a verbal agreement" with Hasbro. And some golden plates we're not allowed to see.
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The whole "As long as you name something a different name you can reproduce it" is a casting myth. If this were at all true, Slayer Designs wouldn't have gotten it's shit pushed in by Lucasfilm. And remember, those were original sculpts, not reproductions.
-CC
What level of respect should I show the artists? The same level of respect that they show Hasbro's intellectual property rights? Or are they somehow entitled to more because it's okay theas long as it's only from a big faceless corporation?
For example, let's say Krexx sculpts a Destro Renegades head, which he has, and you sell it on your site. It's his sculpt, but he doesn't own it... that likeness is owned by Hasbro, and he's bootlegged it and is profiting on it... if someone makes a copy and sells it themselves, how are they any more in the wrong? Both parties are profiting off of an item they do not own and have no legal right to be producing.
Just playing devil's advocate here... obviously it's simply a "gentleman's agreement" that keeps casters respecting other casters original sculpts, and not some moral code...
-CC
This is a valid point and we try very hard to keep respectful to even the big companies. We were simply asked not to use names or trademarked names in the listings (which is why even after multiple request to label or tag the sculpts, we will not). If we are contacted by a company on any item that the artist did and asked to remove it, we will. It was mentioned that Hasbro turns a blind eye to use of character likenesses use and repos. This is true. A lot can be said of Hasbro and lack of fan support, but in this case they have been very accommodating, to allow artwork and straight up repos. Unofficial guidelines were given. Other properties have made it very clear they will not tolerate even looking their way. This is another reason you will see more unique characters in our store. If Hasbro decides they will not support the hobby and requests we take down items we will. We will still have loads of unique sculpts for you guys.
If someone were to reproduce one of the AF sculpts, it would be without permission unless prior arrangements were made. We do not have the resources or fan tie in at this point to allow it. The artist continued involvement and production depends on this. It would be a case of the fans killing the goose that lays the golden eggs. No more resources coming in means no more sculpts coming out
. If we ever win the lotto and can fund the artist with a trust fund, our stance may very well shift into Hasbro's current position. Until then......'s begone!I think we have derailed TJ's thread enough
, which was not our intent. If you guys want to start a new thread on this, we are open to the dialog and frankly find it refreshing to see a board where intelligent conversation exists over trolling and biased modding.
Derailing TJ's thread is my stock in trade.
Obviously Darkwynter and AF "get it", since his initial post was a polite request, not a demand or a threat like some casters... which is why I, and I'm sure the majority of the community, is happy to honor it. I just wanted to make a larger point and have TJ's thread degenrate into a pier 6 brawl.
:shoot:
-CC
Obviously Darkwynter and AF "get it", since his initial post was a polite request, not a demand or a threat like some casters... which is why I, and I'm sure the majority of the community, is happy to honor it. I just wanted to make a larger point and have TJ's thread degenrate into a pier 6 brawl.
:shoot:
-CC
I'm pretty new here and am liking what I see. I know how hard it is to accommodate everyone like you do. Side requests disrupt the whole process immensely. I hope everyone appreciates your hard work.....and I'm a little worried you asked for Twiki instead of Wilma.
I'm pretty new here and am liking what I see. I know how hard it is to accommodate everyone like you do. Side requests disrupt the whole process immensely. I hope everyone appreciates your hard work.....and I'm a little worried you asked for Twiki instead of Wilma.
Mmmmm... Wilma Deering.... :word:
No, I inadvertently derailed it offering up my Iceberg custom's parts for casting, but my IB head is a combo of a Star Wars figure and a casting of an older SDS headsculpt.
Then it just went to shit from there. I can pull out the discussion into a separate discussion thread, as it's interesting on its own but clutters this thread.
How exactly does one estabish a "moral" precedent? Is it in the "Caster's Constitution?" Which amendment is that?
If anything, I think it just falls under "Don't be a dick."
My point is, there aren't any rules about any of this between customizers. It's all based on people being part of a community and establishing certain lines they prefer not be crossed, and people abiding by them because they feel that's best for everyone. Once you start laying down "rules" as if you're Moses come down from the mountain, you end up like Alyosha, who feels he's entitled to piss and moan at anyone who casts the same Hasbro-owned parts as he does.
Oh, I forgot, he has "a verbal agreement" with Hasbro. And some golden plates we're not allowed to see.
-CC
And MY point is that it doesn't matter if there's rules about it between customizers or not. Legally, if you copied someone else's work and sold it, they could sue you. That goes equally for Hasbro suing artists and casters, and artists suing casters.
Then I guess my further point is "Good luck with that."
Since so much of the customizing community is so spread out, it would hardly be worth trying to sue someone over some $3 head casts, especially if they're in another state or even country...but I guess you're right, you could technically try.
-CC
But what about the $8 and $10 and even $15 ones that *some* people sell??
Then I guess my further point is "Good luck with that."
Since so much of the customizing community is so spread out, it would hardly be worth trying to sue someone over some $3 head casts, especially if they're in another state or even country...but I guess you're right, you could technically try.
-CC
To which I'd say "You don't really understand intellectual property rights at all, do you?"
It's all good....I have a IB head mod coming very soon.
Good. He also needs webgear and that fur collar, too.
Have you cast any items such as the waist/skirt piece (any "coat" style waist piece that would fit that Arctic SE/Snow Serpent torso)? I think if a caster sold an "Iceberg Fuck-Up-Fix-Up" kit that it'd sell pretty well. The problem would be, I could easily paint a head and webgear/collar, but that skirt I'd want in a plastic that matched the figure, and that'd be probably tough to match up for you, wouldn't it? That awkward mint color?
"verbal agreement with Hasbro"
pffft....Snicker. I strongly doubt Hasbro as a corporation would admit to that which legally means there is no such agreement. Bottom line would be that Hasbro doesn't feel threatened by casters and probably feels it encourages the line. After all most of the parts available require that collectors buy the base Hasbro figure to begin with which is a sale for them either way.
I think I know where the stickers for the Eaglehawk prototype came from.....guess that means there is some kind of agreement.....not.
pffft....Snicker. I strongly doubt Hasbro as a corporation would admit to that which legally means there is no such agreement. Bottom line would be that Hasbro doesn't feel threatened by casters and probably feels it encourages the line. After all most of the parts available require that collectors buy the base Hasbro figure to begin with which is a sale for them either way.
I think I know where the stickers for the Eaglehawk prototype came from.....guess that means there is some kind of agreement.....not.
I'm pretty new here and am liking what I see. I know how hard it is to accommodate everyone like you do. Side requests disrupt the whole process immensely. I hope everyone appreciates your hard work.....and I'm a little worried you asked for Twiki instead of Wilma.
Thanks....you get more involved here, it's a great site. As for you, Darkwynter. Can i ask you a question? Why do you refer to yourself as "we"? Your are conjoined twins or something? As for Twiki....I would rather have a cool midget robot around.
I personally don't care, since I have the two I need
...only reason I'd even do it is for anyone else who wants it...if you think it'd sell, you're welcome to give it a goHAH!...nice!
As for our off topic topic...i feel pretty much like MR feels...if Hasbro isn't gonna make it, I have no problem supporting someone who will...that goes for SDSs old stuff too...if Dave or anyone else is no longer making it, I don't see a problem at all if someone else copies it and sells it...
I'd LOOOOVE to see third party GIJOE full figure manufacturers come along much like with what's happened with transformers...if Hasbro refuses to make figures like Cross Country or Frostbite available, or more modern realistic military figures or even guys in suits, then f*@# em!...let someone else fill the void...
Haha. Did they use CobraStickers stickers?
That's why I think they are okay with it. Lucas is a dick to fans concerning the Star Wars property's usage... always has been, always will. So Star Wars is an extra special case.
Hasbro's own properties, though, can only be encouraged by buying cast items.
What I'm surprised with, is that NOBODY so far has created carded/boxed "modern era" Joe figures like the Transformers market has blown up with. Perhaps it's because they're much bigger overseas and in Asian countries (specifically China, where intellectual property isn't even a concept) but that's something I can see Hasbro having a problem with.
Yeah that figure is weak. I have a little something you guys will like. Ill post a pic in my works thread cause I still wanna keep it hush.
I got my parts today! Thanx Tofujesse! 
I hope you can also get NF Lady Jaye's head from someone. The head is the only new part on the entire figure!
I can't wait to see what you have in store for Iceberg.
I hope you can also get NF Lady Jaye's head from someone. The head is the only new part on the entire figure!
I can't wait to see what you have in store for Iceberg.
LOL, Often I am not typing answers directly myself. Either I having it transcribed from earlier, or am getting someone to type for me as I speak. I am notoriously slow at typing and text correspondence. In these cases, you are literally talking to more than one person (myself plus AF team members) or someone typing for me by proxy (team members to respond to e-mails, etc.). Also it depends on if I am referring to myself (singular) or The AngelForge (plural, group of people). Thus the interchanging singular vs. plural pronouns. When you see plural forms pop up (or if you get an answer back from an e-mail), it is a big clue I'm being lazy, multi-tasking, or abusing my administrative help.
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Kind of like that Shooter figure I've been hearing about.
I don't think this will ever happen unless the figures were generic and not obvious GI Joe characters (like Lanard's O-ring figures). Hasbro may encourage casting and turn a blind eye to vintage figure reproductions (the Black Major), but a full modern figure they would not accept.
To which I'd say "You don't really understand intellectual property rights at all, do you?"
You could... and again, you'd be totally wrong, considering the companies I've worked with and their intellectual properties I've been in charge of. Of course, I do conceed that those were legitimately licensed entertainment properties... maybe I'm not as well-versed when it comes to IP law covering "shit someone bootlegged in their basement."
-CC
Haha. Did they use CobraStickers stickers?
That's why I think they are okay with it. Lucas is a dick to fans concerning the Star Wars property's usage... always has been, always will. So Star Wars is an extra special case.
Hasbro's own properties, though, can only be encouraged by buying cast items.
What I'm surprised with, is that NOBODY so far has created carded/boxed "modern era" Joe figures like the Transformers market has blown up with. Perhaps it's because they're much bigger overseas and in Asian countries (specifically China, where intellectual property isn't even a concept) but that's something I can see Hasbro having a problem with.
I don't know...Lucas has been pretty good to the 501st, letting them make full suits of armor for their members. They've been likewise lenient with fan films, those Sucklord vinyl figures... a lot of Star Wars stuff that falls under "bootlegs" always got the blind eye from them as they understood that it helps keep the fan love alive and people buying up the legitimate product. My understanding on them dropping the hammer on figure casting has to do more with Hasbro and the high royalty rates that company pays... they are VERY protective of that property in a way they are not for G.I. Joe.
It will be interesting to see if Disney drops the banhammer on the fan community now that they own the whole kit and kaboodle. They certainly did on the Clone Wars and those poor bastards developing games at Lucasarts. And how they handle G.I. Joe when they buy Hasbro in the next 5 years.
-CC
Or $30 repros of action figure jackets that they believe only *they* have the rights to sell?
-CC
Which is what we've been discussing, no?
I'm very active in a community of artists who work on licensed properties (both officially and "just for fans", where this issue of rights comes up a lot) and I work for one of the biggest IP organizations in the country, if not the world. I really do know
I'm talking about.
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Which is what we've been discussing, no?
I'm very active in a community of artists who work on licensed properties (both officially and "just for fans", where this issue of rights comes up a lot) and I work for one of the biggest IP organizations in the country, if not the world. I really do know
Fogger works for IP Freely.
